#107 How to Become the Most Attractive Version of Yourself with Steve Mayeda

[Angel Donovan]: Steve, thank you so much for joining us on the show today.

[Steve Mayeda]: It is my pleasure. Man, it's actually an honor. You have a pretty known show out there, so very cool to be on it.

[Angel Donovan]: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Well, so let's learn a little bit about you. I love to get to know our guests and, of course, the audience does. How old are you? Where are you living? What is your lifestyle like today?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh man, it's totally plain, normal and bland.

[Angel Donovan]: But you're enjoying it.

[Steve Mayeda]: If you could imagine a gray palette; no, I'm just kidding. So, I'm 37 and actually, I'll be 38 in a month. Crazy. Can't believe it.

I'm from California and my family's from Hawaii. I actually grew up in California and Hawaii as well. And then I live in Texas and I've lived in Texas for the past 10 years. I lived in Dallas, Fort Worth for a long time, that's where a lot of the early pickup stuff came about, and I've been in Austin for the past, I guess, 5, maybe 6 years.

What my life is like now, I have a family and all those sorts of things. I teach nonstop. My life is basically coaching and my family and that is it.

It's so cool because we were talking a little bit before this interview had started, but with my involvement with the 21 Convention and stuff, there's so much that happens that is to achieve the total man; not just women and sex, which is a pretty awesome part of it, but be in shape and to focus properly and to do all these different cool things.

You were talking about the diet that you had just done, or the fasting that you had just done, all that sort of stuff is what men naturally fall into and that's pretty much my life; that's what I work with guys on constantly. Right after this call, I'll be doing that.

[Angel Donovan]: [Unclear 05:33] context, do you work more broadly these days and it's not just about the dating or is dating the main driver?

[Steve Mayeda]: That's a good question and this is something that was a big struggle; this was so apparent. I don't know when you found this out, but clearly, you've discovered it, but anytime guys get together and whatever it is, if it's to talk about women or sex or anything like that, they branch off into these other things. There's like entrepreneurship, fitness, those are the big ones; purpose, meaning, all these things become big issues and so any men's group is naturally going to turn into that, whatever the motive is in the beginning.

However, way back when like 2008, before then, clients were clearly moving in these different directions and it was like this isn't just about dating, this is about the total man. But here's the thing, I had always such an emphasis on sex, always such an emphasis on customization and being able to do things in an authentic way, and I know that's a kitsch word, but literally, I got sued over it in 2007 from...

[Angel Donovan]: You got sued?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh, yeah. It was crazy.

[Angel Donovan]: For saying stuff?

[Steve Mayeda]: So I had a customized routine stack, so guys would email me and they'd email me about their lives. They'd write these huge essays about their lives and I would say, "Well, what do you want to learn?" And it got so detailed that my buddy, Scott, he's the owner of a jiu-jitsu company, he actually got me into jiu-jitsu and all that stuff, but he was like, "Man, I want to start dating the ring girls in the UFC. Write me something for that. Here's the information that I have." And so I wrote those things.

Well, at the time, I was doing contracting for Mystery Method, which that was when Savoy owned it or whatever; he basically burnt mystery on it and so they got in their big lawsuit. And then he had sued me.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh, you got caught up in that?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, a separate lawsuit, but yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I know quite a few people who were caught up in it.

[Steve Mayeda]: And man it was awesome too, because quite a few people got...

[Angel Donovan]: This is pickup artist industry history; it was 2004, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: I had no clue what to do. I hadn't been sued. I don't know anything about it.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Right.

[Steve Mayeda]: And so I get a lawyer, they kind of suck and then I got another lawyer. If you do not get a good lawyer, you're going to end up selling everything to get another lawyer, so that's what happened in my legal matter.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a good point. That did happen? Ouch.

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, yeah. So basically, I got another lawyer and she was great and then a few other people actually contacted me. This is so funny. A few people contacted me saying, "Hey, I know you got sued by Savoy's team, I'm getting sued now too or he gave me this and it looks like it might be turning into that." And so it's like, "Hey, here's my lawyers."

So what ended up happening is my lawsuit had so much crap around it from the first lawyer that there was a lot of shit that I was tied up in, but it ended up all working out fine. But these other guys who hired my attorney team, man this is awesome, they just fucking fucked with them.

[Angel Donovan]: Because he or she had a lot of experience with the case by then.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, because they knew what they were going to do.

[Angel Donovan]: All the things to avoid.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. And it was just great. They ended up taking this case all the way to some like Federal level or something like that and it got thrown out and they lost a bunch of money.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, I heard it just ended and basically both sides just went their own ways and nothing came of it, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, there was a lot of stress.

[Angel Donovan]: It was legal fees as well, yes.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Oh man, and that's the thing, you lose. As cool as it may sound to get the edge or whatever, you never win and you're like get out of the courtroom as quick as possible, that's actually the best thing.

[Angel Donovan]: And as you were just saying, the stress of having a legal case hanging over you; was it like 2 years or something?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, mine was different, but yeah, mine lasted a long time.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. All right. Well glad to hear that that all died a long time ago. There's been some drama in that particular community.

So you mentioned you're a family man. I understand you had your first baby just recently?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, I actually have two kids from a prior relationship and that's actually a whole other story; it did not end up good. There's a lot of shit around that that is totally screwed up and I think what I was saying about the total man and all this sort of stuff, man, like sex is great. You should be having a good sex life; if you're not having a good sex life, have it.

If you have the desire to go out and meet as many women as possible and have sex in as many ways, there's nothing wrong with that. If you do that, you can live well, the problem is that so many people in this industry are saying that in order to do that, you have to do this secret stuff or you have to be somebody else. No man, you can absolutely, 100%, if you're 40, 50, if you're 25, whatever it is, you can have a great sex life with all the things that you want if you are willing to be yourself and work to be that.

Now, when I started out in this industry in 2005, I was a new dad. Man, it was crazy. I didn't know what was what. I had no advice and literally, when I got involved in pickup, I was good at it. I was good at doing crazy stuff, no problem with that and I was very, very sexually aggressive.

I didn't realize back then in 2005, a lot of guys weren't actually really getting laid or wanting to be that sexually nuts, right? I did. I watched Julien stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: You actually just said you did Julien stuff?

[Steve Mayeda]: No. No. I watched Julien stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: All right. Okay. So we're talking about Julien Leblanc, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: Leblanc, yeah. To me, I think it's ridiculous and immature, it's up to them. I know Owen and he's a good friend of mine from RSD Tyler, but basically, I thought that it was an immature thing to have that shit out there, but man, I did worse. Every frat boy or whatever, or every kid that's trying to sow his oats, but has a little bit of power with women is going to do some really stupid shit and you have to allow yourself to come out of that.

But see, the problem with the industry was, especially for me, is I didn't realize it and so here I was getting a lot of women and getting laid a lot and making that the main focus of my life to have sex with as many people as possible. And how you turn that into a lifestyle or anything like that, pretty much everybody was lying about.

[Angel Donovan]: When you say people were lying about it, were they lying about their satisfaction, their happiness, what they were actually doing in their lifestyle? What were they lying about?

[Steve Mayeda]: Most of the guys weren't getting laid.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, there was a lot of those guys just on forums or even coming out sometimes.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Yeah. So I remember at one of the first conventions I attended or spoke at was in 2007. I'm looking at these dudes, you're looking at all of them and you're like, "Wow. These guys are all so fucking railing all these chicks and having these experiences that I'm having." And now in retrospect after having known them, they just weren't and whatever, that's fine. It's a little bit fraudulent or whatever in teaching.

But the thing I really needed was some clarity on sex, on all the problems that came with it, all the problems with the relationships and women and all that sort of stuff. The answer basically was get laid more, do more cool stuff. If you do this, it's awesome and it's fun and it was, but then after everybody was gone, it wasn't fun.

So where I actually went to, just because I was a very sexually driven person, I made friends with some people in the porn industry and I actually started talking to them. I remember there was this guy, the California Pimp, he runs Net Video Girls and it's like this casting couch thing; he actually asked me to take it over, which I was thinking about, but I'm kind of glad I declined.

He actually talked me out of it in a way. He was like, "Dude, just imagine for the rest of your life you're going to have people following you around saying all this stuff. But he said, "Man, Steve, everybody in your industry hates women and I hated women too, and it turned into this, but I think it's a good thing. I do pornography and this is what I do. My sex life turned into this and I was really angry at my mom, she was super abusive. My grandparents raised me and everything was fucked up and I was in and out of orphanages. Basically, I ended up in the porn industry and it was real easy to get involved in a lot of hate and anger there and it forced me to look at my myself. And that's just what I see here, but on a smaller level." And it really made me think about what was happening.

And so at that time in 2008 or so, I was having so much sex, but I wasn't having satisfaction from it. I thought I had never liked sex because for two years, basically, or two-and-a-half years, I had done everything that I wanted to do, but I wasn't actually happy.

[Angel Donovan]: So were you looking for new challenges or new stuff for that time? How were you approaching that?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh man, I needed to stop. I needed to chill the fuck out. My sex drive was super high.

[Angel Donovan]: Just out of interest, have you had your testosterone tested?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, which is lower now.

[Angel Donovan]: Do you know what roughly, range it is? Because we've talked about this before.

[Steve Mayeda]: The last time I tested it, it was like 500 something.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. That's okay.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, it's okay for like a 50-year-old, but I'm 37.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Steve Mayeda]: But the thing is, is that I was nuts and this was another issue that I had too; man, I could talk a lot about this. So the next big venture that I'll probably talk about a lot is addiction into drugs and sex because it seems to be a hot topic and everybody that goes on and on about it pisses me off. They say things which are not necessarily true and I have a lot of experience with those.

Before any seduction stuff, I had a major, major drug problem that, I mean, I had died of an overdose when I was 17 and all this sort of stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: So is the point you're making there that you had kind of got addicted to the pickup thing, having more sex partners?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, I guess, more sex-based. The thing was at the time, I could always get hard in any situation, I could always perform and I would talk to guys and I would be like, "Man, that's actually a curse." You'll be having sex with people you don't want to have sex with.

You build this lifestyle where there's a lot of women around it and they want to have sex and they might be going through their own shit, or maybe they have a fucking weird problem and they want to fuck you, or you're breaking up with somebody and you shouldn't be around them and it is like a bad relationship and then you guys start having sex again.

[Angel Donovan]: Do you think it was a pure biological high libido or was there some ego in that as well?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh, total ego. It's like a perfect mix.

One of my friends that I'm really good friends with now that I talk to a lot about this stuff is Eric Eberhart and he's actually just moving to Budapest and leaving the U.S. for good. Basically, he is much more than I; that guy is on a different level. But it's a high sex drive and ability to perform mixed with this other perfect storm of emotional shit where you're trying to compensate or compromise for different parts of your life and so that's where I was at. Now, if I didn't have those physical attributes, it would come out somewhere else.

[Angel Donovan]: So what percentage of your life would you have said that pickup and having sex and chasing women actually, in general, was of your life at that time?

[Steve Mayeda]: What percentage was it? Eighty percent.

[Angel Donovan]: I can relate totally. I went through a dark patch and I went down a tunnel too and it had to get really bad before I woke up and said, "This feels like it's 70%, 80% of my life and my career is getting worse rather than better."

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, I had the cool option of having this as a career. I was still succeeding financially and all that sort of stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. That's actually a complicated situation there.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: That makes it more complicated.

[Steve Mayeda]: And plus, I kind of became known for really graphic lay reports. That's why I say when you hear from the Julien Blanc guy all this stuff, dude, if there were video cameras, I mean there were then, but if it was as easy as it is now, man, I would just be nuts.

[Angel Donovan]: So just for listeners, your name used to be El Topo, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. What were you posting way back?

[Steve Mayeda]: I was posting on the Mystery Method forums.

[Angel Donovan]: Was that the one that came when the Mystery said this [unclear 17:55] now our commercial forum?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: The one with the company.

[Steve Mayeda]: Now, those posts would be under a Love Systems forums; they banned me a long time ago, but you can still find them there.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool. I guess that came with the lawsuit, potentially?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So I was just curious, where did El Topo come from? What was the story behind that name?

[Steve Mayeda]: It's a cool movie and it's a cool story of how it came about. Basically, when I logged into a forum, I didn't realize this was going to be something I'd be known for ever, it was just you picked a handle, you pick some sort of nickname.

And I typed in one that my friends used to call me when I was kid which was Magoda and for some reason that didn't show up. I couldn't use it. And then I was always into movies and I was always into crazy and bizarre movies, so the first one I typed in when I was registered of a movie was a movie called Saló, which was, at the time, out of print in the U.S. It's a pretty fucked up movie. It deals with all this torture shit. The director who made it was actually a pretty brilliant director, but he got killed the day that it was released, so it's a pretty intense movie.

[Angel Donovan]: He got murdered because of the film or was it randomly?

[Steve Mayeda]: He got murdered picking up a boy hooker and the movie actually has to do with a lot of fucked up stuff like that. It's based out of a Marquis de Sade book and basically put in fascist Italy. It's a totally brutal fucked up movie, but it's like revered critic people like Martin Scorsese says that he shoots on location because of Pasolini, that's the director's name and all this other stuff, but Saló was a really known movie, but totally fucked up.

And then I was, "I don't want to use this as my handle. It's a crazy bizarre movie, but it's just too fucked up. It's too brutal, so I'll go with this other movie El Topo." El Topo is a movie that was made by a guy named Alejandro Jodorowsky who basically made movies in Mexico and they're totally bizarre. In fact, John Lennon's favorite movie was El Topo and then they funded his next movie The Holy Mountain. So anybody that's done a lot of acid or some crazy hallucinogenic drug, it would be enormously enhanced while watching El Topo or The Holy Mountain. And so Jodorowsky's movies were just these crazy bizarre things with all sorts of sex and surreal shit and midgets, bugs, death and all sorts of awesome amazing things. So I picked that and then everybody wondered why.

[Angel Donovan]: I assume you are Hispanic?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. In that movie actually, at the time, was out of print in the U.S.; currently, you can get it very easily in the U.S. and same with Saló. But yeah, El Topo is it, that's how it came about.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool. Cool. I had a Spanish name too, I was [unclear 21:00].

[Steve Mayeda]: Nice.

[Angel Donovan]: Fallen angel.

Okay, so I did want to get into a discussion of the men's stuff. There was a few tangents of it I was looking at. First of all, we hear we should be the best version of ourselves all the time, right? What does that mean? What the hell does that mean?

[Steve Mayeda]: For me, absolutely, it means no matter where you're at, you need to be you. The best times of my life were perhaps sometimes the worst time. I've had so many ups and downs in my life. Like I said, I have a family now and actually, Maria's pregnant again, so we're going to have two babies, but I had lost custody of my kids before. That was one of the worst days of my life, just fucking horrible and so shitty, but at that time, you're so panicked and don't know what to do when the hammer drops on that stuff, that you don't know what to do. How do you be yourself in that moment?

I'll tell you this, that's a very sad and horrible situation that happened and work its way through the solution, but in that moment, I think of that day a lot; well, when people ask me about how I believe in what I believe in and stuff like that, is because what did I do that day? I didn't know what to do, so I reached out.

I talked to people. I talked to people that I knew I could trust and care about. I went and was of service to people.

I mean, that night that it happened, my buddy, Jerome, picked me up and we went and did service work at a rehab facility and worked with some people. Man, it was just shitty and there were weeks and weeks after that and all you can do during that time is suit up and show up with who you are and with your emotions and be able to be honest about them.

The problem is people will talk to me and they'll say, "Steve, I dumped this girl and fucked a girl right away that's not that authentic." And I'm like, "What do you mean?" If that's what you wanted to do, if that's who you were, that is your authenticity and you need to see the truth within it. You need to be able to inventory yourself with it. You need to be able to look at who you are and why you're doing that.

I'm not putting moral judgment in this, I'm putting more like self-analysis and awareness. Judgment is some other thing that's happening. Yeah, it's for the courts and gossip people and other people to decide, but when it comes to looking at who you are, how you can be who you are, needs to be truly of self and what you're feeling. It's not an image, it's not what other people say, it's how you can do things in the best possible way.

Like I said in the example for myself, I didn't know what the fuck to do, so what I did was I trusted in other people and I did it and I owned whatever actions I had based on that. So if I didn't know what to do and I asked my buddy, Dave, if I asked whoever, Jim, to help me out and I take action on that, that's mine to be responsible of myself.

That's how I would say you become the best version of yourself, you are the person that defines that and you are the person that lives that. And if you can't do that, any sort of happiness or any sort of result is a fucking facade.

[Angel Donovan]: It sounds like self-acceptance, acceptance of what you're doing; is that part of it?

[Steve Mayeda]: Self-acceptance is part of it, but self-acceptance is actually acceptance on things that have happened or are happening; when it comes to expression, that's different. So expression is what you put out; acceptance is what you use to assess.

So in order to have a proper expression of what I put out, what I share with the world, what I say, the steps I take forward, the actions that I take, yeah, I have to be willing to accept those things. I have to be willing to own those things. I have to be willing for all of that, but it has to come from a pure place of me.

If there's fear, if there's doubt, if there's any of that stuff that is ruling my decision, if there's emotions that haven't come out, then I need to get to know them.

If I'm having sex with people and fucking like crazy and it's awesome and everybody says it's awesome, fucking 10s, fucking 8s, whatever it is, getting in all these crazy positions, going on adventures, having women travel around the world to see me or me travel around the world to see them; if I have all of that, that's great, but if it's not fulfilling to me, then it becomes quite confusing on what the answer be. What is the answer that I'm looking for? What is it that is going to make me happy?

And so I have to look, "Why do I want love? What is the benefit of this?" Even the desires, and this is one thing that I would recommend to guys who are really into pickup, "What are you chasing when you're posting stuff online?" I try to get attention from people and do stuff like that and I like it. I like it when people give me attention, but what is fulfilling me in that and what of that is my true nature and my expression and what of that is me chasing this fucking ridiculous idea of approval because I didn't get it from somewhere else?

So expression, a little bit different than self-acceptance, but self-acceptance is a massive, massive part of the whole equation of self-betterment.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. It's pretty tricky stuff for guys to work their head through, I can imagine. Have you taught similar stuff in your men's groups and your programs just like this stuff?

[Steve Mayeda]: The way our men's groups work is basically, online international community. We meet 15 to 20 hours a week on calls and talk about a bunch of shit; usually, socializing and sex being the main fundamental part of it, but it turns into everything.

[Angel Donovan]: So when it comes to this topic, where do people get stuck in understanding it or what practical examples can they relate to? Or maybe they bring up where they struggle with this.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Okay, so experience, that's a huge thing where you're going to get stuck. Any turning point is where you're going to get stuck.

There was a guy who had oneitis for a girl. He had oneitis for some chick. He was all wrapped up in her. He actually had sex with her, but it wasn't enough and he wanted to get more.

Didn't know why she was rejecting him and then all of a sudden he then somehow, you know how this works, it's like when you're active with your sexuality more people notice about it. This guy's young, he's like 21 or something, and this girl who's in her 30s starts picking up on him and she basically seduces him. He's like, "Man, I wasn't into it. I couldn't get it up."

And so it's a big thing that comes to our groups and in our groups, this is a topic that gets talked about a lot and addressed very well. But basically, he couldn't get it up and it was like, "Yeah, that's fine."

And we were all talking as men, "Look, when that happens, it sucks. You feel like shit. You're never going to feel good when you're in the sexual mode and you can't get it up and sexually perform. You're not going to get around that. You will feel like fucking inadequate on some degree and then you will want to find another outlet to have sex as quick as possible."

[Angel Donovan]: Right. To recover from it, yeah.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, totally right.

[Angel Donovan]: Revalidate myself.

[Steve Mayeda]: But the thing is, is you can't get in the drama about it.

One of the big things with TSL, that's The Sexual Life; The Sexual Life is the company I founded and we often go by TSL, is that we say we want to get back to normalization. How do we make sex normal?

So you can be fucking like crazy or fucking in monogamy or fucking very little and it's healthy, as long as it's normal; as long as it's brought back to not an exaggeration, not an exaggerated expression that you're putting out there. And so we talked with him a lot about basically, "Man, take the orgasm out of it. Take the hard dick out of it. And don't just make it about eating her pussy and pleasing her or whatever."

But if you're having problems getting it up or sexually performing, first off, that's very easy to happen. This is one thing I'll tell you about pickup dudes, every gangbang I was involved in, everything where I was accessing a lot of my friends in the porno industry or whatever, all those guys I interviewed, I bring in all these pickup dudes or gurus or guys making products, none of those guys could get it up and it was the funniest fucking thing. Why? Because there was no empathy, there was no exchange. The girls were just there to fuck; it wasn't to get to know them and it wasn't about egos. So it's very easy, if one thing is a little bit off sexually, that you're not feeling that connection, it's very easy to not be able to perform.

And so I was telling this guy, I said, "Dude, just relax, man. Be naked with her. Talk with her." If you want something to say, say the first couple times with somebody new, I need to get to know them a little bit better.

But, to be honest, you need to be sitting there. Your body will take over. I mean, this guys is young, he can sexually perform. We always say, "If you can get it up to any situation, whether that's porn or another girl, then the biology isn't the problem, the physiology is the problem."

[Angel Donovan]: It's psychology.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. So basically, the funny thing is, is that then he went back to the girl, did the deal and then ended up being able to perform, sleep with her and all that sort of stuff, but the funny thing is, is he comes right back on another call. And we have just tons of calls, it's almost every day of the week. We're going to have one actually, 2 hours after I'm done with this interview.

But basically he goes, "Man, I just liked her for sex and I'm not attracted to her really, in any way." And we're like, "Dude, maybe that's one of the reasons why you couldn't get it up. There was something that you didn't feel right about it." But he's like, "No, but that's wrong. I should like her for all of who she is. Isn't that the right guy thing to do, authentic thing to do?" And it's, "No, man. If your sex drive has to do with women's hot bodies, that's fine."

Now, the thing is, of course, the whole human experience is so much deeper than just the hot body or if you make your sex life just about a woman's hot body, you'll clearly be unhappy. You will not find fulfillment. Man, a hot body or whatever you find attractive about her is very important and the fact that you don't have it and you wanted to have some relationship with her and she wanted to have some relationship with you and you didn't feel it, that's life. That's where you need to start to man up and be able to say, "Hey, look, this isn't working out. I don't like it."

And man, don't be like me. For me, I did that for years, I was like, "No, I got to keep fucking. I got to keep fucking. I got to keep having sex. I'm going to do this. I want to discovery this and that," which is cool because I found out a lot of great information about human beings, sex and gained a lot of experience, but at the expense of basically compromising who I was to get that. That's a common problem that will come up, like sexual performance or where they're at with sex and relationships.

Man, I was talking to a guy who was a dating coach and this is the thing is dating coaches never talk about their issues, but he was saying, man, this was nuts, but I'm sure you've been here yourself, is that he was dating a girl and she lived in his town and they had met and they connected. It was awesome. And basically, she went overseas to do some humanitarian work for a little bit and she was like, "Hey, I'm going to be a little bit longer. I'm not going to be back in 5 weeks or whatever it is, I'm going to be back in like 2 months and maybe you can come with me." And he was like, "Wait a minute. This is pulling my fucking problems. We're in love, but we're not." And he starts talking to me about this and he goes, "Man, we're in love, but it's coming out in all these weird ways." And I was telling him, "Look, dude, here's what I know about love. I love falling in love. I love feeling love with women. If I have sex with women, I can feel love, that's what happens when you start to live that language." And especially if other people haven't spoken that language that much, you've got a pretty big advantage.

I was like you know what I learned though about real love? It doesn't have drama to sustain it. It doesn't have panic, fear and insecurities in trying to measure it and build the scale of equality around it. Well, she's doing this and I'm doing that and so it must be right. It doesn't do that. It doesn't speak a language of this logical mind map of shit and this emotional chaos, it makes me know who I am. It makes me feel free. It makes me appreciate other people.

And what I had to learn to do was that when I felt that on a sexual level or an emotional level, but it wasn't working out in the rest of my life, I had to learn to be able to speak about it, so that was really hard.

So what we learned basically, with TSL and how we run our groups is that you can say that to a guy and he's not going to get it until he experiences it. And then when he experiences it, he's going to have to come back to the group and say it again and process it. And so there's this huge thing with talking about stuff and basically experiencing stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: The point you bring up on love, I think it's a really big one actually, because I think a lot of guys think they've been in love when it's been insecurity, [unclear 33:52]. It's kind of like the mix of emotions. It's passion, it's more like the passion aspect, right? The chemistry which can often come about through [unclear 33:59] or insecurities, all of these things and so they're all on top emotionally and then they start to think that that's love. She was the one or whatever, but actually, like you, I guess, I don't think it is love at all. Love is absolutely something different and we've spoken a lot about love.

You sound like you've got your own take on it; is there a way you can define love?

[Steve Mayeda]: Man, look, I'll tell you when I've felt love sexually or emotionally, I would still call it love. Love is, that would be like saying this heavy massive concept like nature or life, you can't put an absolute on it. The human definition of it will always be flawed, in my opinion, because it comes out in so many different ways. And so I experience nature, yeah, of course, when I was fucking this chick or when I was walking in the woods or when I was doing something, but that isn't necessarily nature.

The truth can be found in the system, but the system is not the truth. The way that we express the truth is not the total truth. So the way we express love, love can be found in that or the way we experience it can be found in it, but I don't think that it's total love.

I think you can feel love with everybody. I think you can feel it with everything, but for me to have that in a relationship with somebody, man, that means that it needs to cross every part of our life and we need to be willing to work through it.

I'll tell you this right now, I talk about this with one of my coaches who is a female and she's married, but we always say being in a relationship is one of the hardest things; that is the biggest challenge of my life. Whatever else has been challenging, being in a relationship is really tough because no matter how much you are in love, no matter how much your lives are in sync, the closer you get, some things come together and the more things conflict and it's not about having an alpha frame or dominance or anything like that, it's about being able to balance them out.

And so what I would actually call love is the essence of humanity. We just seem to only find it in these little tiny areas and then we think we own it or can control it or know it, when I just say, "Hey, fuck man, I'm just a dude. I don't know it. I'm going to let it go its course. You can have your fucking thing and figure it out. I'm just going to try and experience it in the different ways and then also see how its experienced."

But man, hands down, I've been in love with like 4 different women at once, you could even say possibly in the same day, and that should be how it is. It's just such a powerful, amazing thing.

But I'll tell you this, I got love through sex. So, I still have sex, well now that we've been together for...

[Angel Donovan]: You say you got love through sex?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh, hands down, yeah. Easy. Easy. If my dick touches a woman's pussy, I can get months of her...

[Angel Donovan]: Let me ask you a personal question, okay? This is something I've seen over time. Does it make a difference if you make love, have sex with a condom or naked skin in the way you feel about the women afterwards?

[Steve Mayeda]: This is the weird thing about condoms, totally, naked skin, no condom. It would feel much more intense in every single way. But the funny thing about condoms is everybody says they care about safe sex and you should, I'm not saying you shouldn't, but every woman, every guy, guy/girl, doesn't matter, I'm not trying to divide anything here, they always say, "Safe sex is important. The first time you guys have sex, use a condom; second time you have sex, use a condom. Third or fourth time, nobody actually got tested, nobody actually got anything done.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Now, when you're in a relationship or you classify yourself as together people are like, "Yeah, it's okay now."

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, it's so weird.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I hear that all the time.

[Steve Mayeda]: It makes no sense.

[Angel Donovan]: It makes no sense at all.

[Steve Mayeda]: But people do it. But, yeah man, sexually totally, man, for me, sex was such a beautiful thing that when I would have it, especially when I was like 28 or 29, I was angry. When I was 26, this girl I went out with said every night I would have to drink myself into oblivion, have sex and then I'd cry. And we were together for a while and so man, I was just like, but sex was this relief. It was this one moment in time where I felt at peace. Everything seemed to work.

So when I got involved in pickup at 28, 29, 30, when I was having all that sex it was like, "How could I feel this girl?" Oh, my God, still to this day when I meet a woman I think, "What is her face like when she orgasms," that's one of the first things I think about. But it's like, "How could I feel her? What would it be like? What would the noises be? How would I come out through her?" And as I got more sexually experienced when I got more involved in orgys and all this shit, like there's this guy, Jason Savage, who was a seducer in Austin who was very amazing level; there's not too many Jason Savages around, but we would have sex with people and it would basically be like, "How would this girl sound with me and how would this girl sound with you?" And we would do this when we would have different orgys and stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: You compare notes?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well no, we would fuck them there. We'd have orgys around each other and whatever, and it would just be so interesting to see the different levels of sex and pleasure and what came with you.

When you can feel that with someone, when you feel that moment of connection, to me, that is like the voice of love. That is the biggest and greatest human dynamic. Sure, there's hormones and chemicals going around in your brain, but it's like fucking insane and it's the greatest high. But when you do that and then nothing else works after it or things are missing after it that will soon build to nothing working after it, it's not a good way to live.

So that's kind of where I got to with it but, man absolutely, I could feel love through sex. If I have sex with a woman, most of the time, and I'm not even speaking out of ego, anybody can do this if you get in touch with yourself, she will remember you for hopefully, the rest of her life. And so through that, if I had sex with somebody, nobody how chaotic my life would be, she'd be around for months in my life just because my ability to connect in that was so, I guess, pure or there or whatever you want to call it.

[Angel Donovan]: What you're talking about is authenticity that you were talking about, just being yourself.

We've touched on this, I don't know if you know a guy called Lawrence Lauth?

[Steve Mayeda]: No.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. Well, he's done a lot of the sexual practices and he talks a lot about this and also, he's done neuroscience, psychology, he's done pretty much everything you can think about in the area of sex, in terms of [unclear 40:38] stuff. He talks about the mirror neurons and how these scientific principles are also magnified during sex. So when you're actually just being yourself, you're being authentic, you establish these connections which makes sex 10 times, 100 times better for both of you.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So it sounds like you're pretty much on the same page.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. I'm not a scientist, I've just experienced a lot, but absolutely, whenever I read stuff like that, it's just awesome. It's just funny though because one of the things that I think gets distorted with a lot of science is when people bring up mirror neurons or neuropathways; a lot of the times, people swing that into a product or an idea that isn't the actual science.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Pseudoscience. There's pseudoscience all over the web, it's not just dating, it's everything; it's amazing. There's more pseudoscience than science out there, for sure.

So I was thinking back to qualities to be a man and to be yourself and to be the best version of yourself and there's a whole bunch of stuff people talk about, right? And I know you talk about some of these.

One of the trickier ones, I think, is people are always saying in the business world, they're saying it everywhere right now, "You have to have purpose." Do you talk about this?

[Steve Mayeda]: Totally. Absolutely. We have courses; basically, a couple different programs, but TSL online is basically how you can get into being you through a social and sexual life and that's what we have.

We teach a true social dynamic and I believe in social dynamics. I believe in a calculated process that you can expect things and measure things.

[Angel Donovan]: So is that like Mystery Method or Love Systems?

[Steve Mayeda]: No. No.

[Angel Donovan]: No?

[Steve Mayeda]: No. No. No. Everything that I teach has to be customized, so there are phenomenons that happen. Mystery Method is the method saying it overrides sex; we're basically fans of sex in saying here's what happens during sex. So when you meet somebody, people are going to be startled when they meet you, right? So how can you buffer that? How can you relax that?

And what we're trying to go for in any social dynamic or sexual dynamic are two thing

[Steve Mayeda]: It's rapport or seduction. How can I get the state of sex and really feel it and exchange it with somebody, which can come out in all sorts of different ways? And how can I get the state of empathy or rapport?

And so in meeting somebody, Mystery Method has such a highlight on building value and you have to do these things and entertain people; entertainment and social value are dependent upon a situation and a culture, they're not dependent upon humanity or someone's biology or physiology. But we all want to get rapport, so in order to get rapport, there might be things that you could do that are entertaining or loud or whatever, but fundamentally, you can get rapport within 2 minutes, you should to be able to connect with somebody. I mean, you can also bypass rapport and get to seduction and all sort of stuff.

Basically, without getting too wrapped up in it, what we basically teach is our social dynamics. How can we say something, like if we are going to do a tease? All those social dynamics are functional tools, but they're not the only way, so teasing, negging, baiting, any sort of push/pull techniques, those phenomenons happen when human beings are over-stimulated, so we want to use those, but how do we use those to swing directly into a rapport and how can we get it and how will we get it? And if we're not getting it, we have to take into account the situation, the person, and where she's at or he's at, all that sort of stuff.

But, no man, we're pretty heavy on the social dynamic side, but at the same time, it has to be fundamentally customized and it has to produce an authentic expression, which why can't it?

But that being said and actually, this ties into the purpose thing, so we have another men's group and they do tie in together called TSL Life and that is where we look at different things, ambition, sex, not sex in like sex/sex, but your sex, your identity as a man, your identity as a man. How do you implement that? How do you put that into expression? How do you have the verb sex with it? And then purpose, relationships and then life?

So we look at all those things over the course of a year, as a group, we go through all these different exercises.

[Angel Donovan]: So is this like exercises where you're writing stuff down and thinking about what stuff means to you?

[Steve Mayeda]: Every week, we basically have a bunch of calls, we have some videos to go over.

[Angel Donovan]: Homework.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, but the calls, we come on and we talk. We unite as a group, so we don't speak from an authoritative perspective. So I may have created most of the material, but not all of it. But I just might host the call or somebody might host the call, but we talk freely so we're all equals.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh, it's like a mastermind kind of thing?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. So that's kind of an important thing. You get a different dynamic. Authoritarian is not bad, but you just get different things from that and from an open group.

Then the other thing is, is that we have an exercise each week; we have multiple and we don't have to do them. We can do them, but the main thing is on the calls we talk to one another on what direction we could go in when we're examining purpose.

So for purpose, for instance, purpose for us, there's two things, this is meaning, this is what everybody's selling because nobody feels like they have any meaning in our world and the second thing is functionality.

Well, let's talk about purpose with sex. If we wanted to get to the fulfilling meaning of sex, we would need to one, if we went on what we recommend at TSL, we get functional first, okay? So with any sort of purpose and meaning and all this sort of stuff that we're going for, if you try and find meaning in it without functionality, you'll just be lost and keep going and you'll get addicted to all the self-help shit and whatever.

[Angel Donovan]: And what would functionality be?

[Steve Mayeda]: You have to be having sex, for purpose and sex, to find a meaning in sex.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh, so it's the experience?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: You have to be having the experience.

[Steve Mayeda]: So if I want to find the purpose of my body, the purpose of my body, I need to find the function of my body. If I want to find the purpose of my mind, I need to find the function of it. First, before I find the meaning of a hand, I need to be able to use it.

[Angel Donovan]: So it's like practicing. It's like real world doing, taking action, experiencing stuff.

[Steve Mayeda]: There's that, but I honestly feel the meaning of life has a lot to do with me. Actually, we were just reading Man's Search for Meaning, Viktor Frankl's book in my group. He actually says something which is really kind of important which we totally believe in. And I'm paraphrasing him and you should read his book and if I'm getting it wrong, I apologize, but the whole point of having purpose in a man's life is bullshit. If a man exists, he will find purpose, the problem is our society gets so refracted and pulled out that we don't express and the more people that we have in a smaller area, the less we are able to find our expression. And so then our expression becomes a novelty, our expression becomes value, it becomes being more important, it becomes having all this sort of stuff and then in order to be a sexual man, we have to dress up and wear stupid shit or act embarrassing in a club in order to be a guy that's good with women. And then we say through that, we find purpose, when we can't even find the functionality of life.

So what is the true functionality of your life? I would say step one is if you don't have purpose, learn how to wake up and maybe make your bed or eat something. I was just talking about how I don't eat breakfast, but get into your body. Move it. Use it. Do those things.

When you can functional with that, then the meanings will become clear and you won't need to search for that meaning, you will find it.

[Angel Donovan]: So it's kind of like a baby when it's experimenting and you, right now, obviously will probably understand this. I have a nephew, he's like a year old, so he's just playing with everything and every day he's learning something new. It sounds pretty much, and it's a good analogy for what you're talking about because we stop doing that after a while and I think what you're saying here is guys get caught up in what society is saying we should have, things like a purpose. We should try and figure out what we're supposed to do with our lives and all of this.

Instead of going out and kind of just exploring life, living it and we'll find the stuff that we really like. You know, you experiment and you're like, "I didn't like that. I just fell off. I don't know what happened there, but I didn't like it. I'll go over here."

Babies just chug around and they start doing stuff that they like. So my nephew loves hoovering all over the house for some reason and he'll spend all day doing that. He'll cry if he can't have his hoover, right? But he knows he just loves that, it's function; is it a good thing?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, yeah. It's interesting because in the Paleo community, so being in the 21 Convention I meet and I interview all the Paleo guys and the Paleo f(x), which is the biggest Paleo convention in the world in Austin and I interviewed a bunch of people there and all sort of stuff; one thing that's interesting about Paleo is that right now, there's all this search for purpose in it and there's a divide with people. If you actually look at the indigenous people that are still around today and you study what they do with their life and you ask them, "What's health?" This was asked to some of them, but not all of them and, you know, but there are tons and tons of studies done on what nomadic cultures do today and they're all very, very different.

But, what do they do? They walk, very little. They don't exercise a lot. I mean, they walk like what, 2 miles or something a day. They sit around and talk.

They don't play. One big thing in Paleo is that it's always be playing, work your ambition and some of the bigger Paleo guys are like, "This is what you were born to do." But in reality, almost no groups that are hunger and gather based do this now.

And then if you would ask those groups what is health, they're like, "Well, I'm not dead. I'm not dying. What do you mean?" But here in our society we're obsessed with this idea.

But the interesting thing is when you move into purpose, what's purpose? What's meaning? Well, it's to do this. Well, obviously, they might have something to do with their Gods, their religious beliefs or spiritual beliefs that they have, but there isn't a loss for meaning and there isn't a loss for personal identity.

The interesting thing about this is if you merge some of these Paleo anthropology guys that are looking in terms of health and fitness into people that looked at sex or social behavior, in terms of anthropology, you could look as some legit guys like Jared Diamond. I interviewed him like a long time ago, but there aren't certain beliefs and thoughts that human beings naturally have when we have different cultures.

The ideas of anxiety, fear, loss of meaning, lack of identity, addiction, all these sorts of things are nonexistent in smaller societies. And so what you could say is that in larger societies where there's a lot of stimuli, where there's a certain density of population, this would be our natural reaction, but it's not the way we evolved to live. For millions of years we did not think this way, we didn't even experience or have a bleep on the map of any of these problems, but now we do.

And so this idea of purpose and man, there's a lot of stuff on it, well people bring up Wilhelm Reich who was a very crazy person, but did a lot of research on sex and the brain, but he had some people like Anthony DeMeo who wrote a book called Saharasia where they talk about the first signs of slavery, sexual dysfunction, sexual abuse, jails and stuff like that. They came out of Egypt and they came out of a certain society that had a certain density.

And then if you look at Richard Dawkins' stuff, everybody brings up the selfish gene and all this shit when they talk about pickup, but I had read that before I was involved in pickup. The cool thing about that, if you look at the stuff that he's saying, is that these thought viruses, they've happened over and over again in our society or in different societies, in different cultures, but only when we got to a certain population density and only when we started living without our means and that was the important thing.

As soon as a culture doesn't have enough of what we need and what we're born to have as human beings, food, water, empathy, connection, our emotional food, if that is starved, we start acting out of scarcity. The typical acts of scarcity would be anxiety, anger, frustration, all the sort of shit and then societally, that turns into jails, that turns into control, that turns into barriers, walls, that turns into all this stuff and now we have these people saying, "Oh, well in order to find your purpose, you need to write down this list of da, da, da, da." In order to find your purpose, you need to get into the functionality of truly what it was to be born to be human, which is so different from how we actually live right now which means, probably, we need to take a little bit more time.

We don't need to meditate and do 40 Million things, or maybe that's your way to get there. Definitely, we live in a dysfunction, but you need to take time to yourself. You need to slow down. You need to not think it's about doing 10 Million things, you need to relax and calm who you are.

Sexual expression is an expression that these amazing things happen like your neurons fire, your empathy goes up, all this sort of shit happens, well get into that; don't get into fucking a bunch of...

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I think what you're saying is most of us don't even give time for that. Even when we're having sex, which is something we all look forward to, we don't give it time because we're thinking about the goal or maybe you're thinking about the performance, right? I've got to make the girl orgasm. I think guys have so many things they're never stopping and it's also just the habit. We're in this habit, as you say, of being in a society where we're connected by Internet and watching TV and we've got the stimulation all the time and we're not spending time alone.

Have you spent a lot more time on your own over the years?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, I always kind of did.

[Angel Donovan]: How would you put this into practical terms? A take home for guys. Say they buy into the fact that we need to take a break a little bit and connect with ourselves. This is going to make us stronger, it's going to make us feel better about ourselves, it's going to give us a clearer vision of who we are, we're going to stronger intent and all of these good things that are going to help to attract women, make our lives better and make us more satisfied; what other kind of practical first steps could they take?

[Steve Mayeda]: Well, if you put into that social realm of meeting more women, number one, there's something that we call the TSL dailies and that's 5 things. I don't do them every day, I try and do them when I can or whatever, and we're a very loose system. There's no real dogma with us, but we have these things that we try and do.

Number one is we try and meditate. We try and take some time to ourselves. You could do it like a zen monk, but it could mean just taking a walk. I take walks all the time and that just calms me down and that sort of stuff. I also talk with people or whatever.

Anything that is an expression of who I am and that I can have a true clarity of mind, I would consider a meditation.

The next one is, is to give. Again, if we were to be in our natural state, we wouldn't call this thing giving or meditation, we wouldn't have titles for it, but how can we do something personal for someone every day? It isn't that we give a Hundred Bucks, it's that we open a door for somebody or we do something personal that's more face to face where we just share something without expectation to somebody else; that's something that's very important.

The next thing is to be social and this is hugely a fundamental thing with TSL, is to say hello to 5 people a day. Say hi, don't expect anything in return. Get functionally social.

I'll tell you this, when it comes to social dynamics and sexual dynamics, if you can get functionally social and talk to people, there's so much we can do to add onto that, to just add little, little things to make it have big leverage. If we can just say hi to people, it doesn't matter if it's weird or if they don't know what to say back or any of these things, or you don't know what you're going to say afterwards or you get this awkward silence, get more in touch with that. And if you can't do that, if you have major social anxiety, then smile at people or get out of the house, if you can't get out of the house. Try and do a thumbs up to somebody and see if they give a thumbs up back. Try and give a smile and see if they smile back, these types of things. Be basically social in a very, very human way.

We're walking by hundreds of people every day and we're not acknowledging them and that's fucking weird. We were not born to do that. That's a reaction to over stimuli.

[Angel Donovan]: I find it's really different by place. I don't know what it's like in Austin. I find people are really friendly in some places like Los Angeles or Latin American, Spain.

[Steve Mayeda]: And then other places they're not, yeah. You go to Eastern Europe and you say hi to people and they're like, "Why are the fuck are you [unclear 57:22]."

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. What do you want?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. But nonetheless, how can you make that work? It's just 5 people, but how could you make that work? So walking around on the street, if you're in Bratislava or something, it's going to be weird. People are going to be like, "Why the fuck are you talking to me?" But maybe go into a cafe and you say, "Hey, how's it going?"

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, even if it's the, what do they call them, the barista? If there really is a place like that where it's a little bit more conservative or whatever you want to call it. You can always talk to the people who are serving you.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm a big fan of that. Don't make it about, "Oh, they're just being nice to me because they're getting paid." A human connection is a human connection. If you can get that, if you can get that, I'm telling you, we can take it and put it into so many different cool variables. You can add something onto it immediately.

But if you're making it about getting something, it's actually going to be harder to get you into the functionality of true empathy or true seduction. Kind of a weird thing, people are like, "I want the results immediately," but get normal with that social function.

The fourth thing is to be sexual. So everybody's like, "What the fuck is that?" Well you know and I know that we can be sexually active, but not be sexual. So I could be having sex all the time, but not really feeling like I'm sexual, so what we say is get in touch with your intent and your urge. What does that mean? How do I say that I like this chick or it's okay to look at her tits, it's okay to look at her legs, I want to smell her pussy or fucking see her orgasm face or show your hard dick, but how could I express that in a way that's socially acceptable?

And so a real simple thing is, is if I see somebody that's attractive, like every once in a while I'll go somewhere and I'll just be like, "Oh, my God, fuckin' A. All I can think about is putting my fucking cum in that girl."

It's that overwhelming, right? How could I get close to her? How could I smile? How can I hold that eye contact?

How can I maybe ask her something personal about herself so I can truly see if she's qualified? "Hey, this is a random question, but are you somebody that you live your passions? Do you know what that is?" And I can find out what she really does and likes and I can get more in touch with that liking of her.

That doesn't mean I need to sleep with her, it doesn't mean that I need to go on a date with her or whatever, maybe that might be her motive, but it's just me putting my intent out there.

Or maybe she speaks in a physical language and gets a little bit closer herself and I get a little bit closer. We don't even need to say anything, but it's projecting my intent. I need to know my sex as a man.

When I was talking about the TSL life stuff when we talked about sex, "What does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to have your sexual biology?"

[Angel Donovan]: I'm guessing the first steps is not to deny yourself any of these things because a lot of guys, I think, they're conservative and say they're sitting opposite a girl and they start having these thoughts. She's really attractive, right? They'll start feeling embarrassed, ashamed of it and so on. So the first step is probably just to eliminate that.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, that's the worst thing you can do.

Actually, I was talking about this because any interview I do, I basically say I'm going to give away some free thing. I had a page made up for you already and I'll add that to it. I'll add the TSL dailies to it which is actually part of TSL online, so they can actually look at them. There's actually a fifth one which is gratitude, but read about it in the PDF.

[Angel Donovan]: It's all good stuff and it's well supported by science, as well. You'll see this stuff in some of the good health stuff that's coming out as well; it's good for life, in general.

[Steve Mayeda]: Seriously.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, gratitude and giving are huge with just happiness.

[Angel Donovan]: Well I'm glad you brought them back to this realm, dating, sex and relationships because often guys don't get how this other stuff can help them in this area, so they kind of ignore it because they're focused on the dating thing right now, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: But this stuff helps. Okay, cool.

A few lightning questions. What advice do you give out a lot to men that you feel is ignored the most and it really annoys you because it's like a real big shame? Something that you feel is really important, you tell a lot of men, but you feel like it's ignored a lot.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah, there's a couple things, but one of them would be just to say hello to people. I am a guy who has been teaching for 10 years. I taught nonstop and I also know almost every coach out there. I've interviewed them, I have a lot of experience, I know who's the who and all the sort of what the what and I'm a very good teacher.

When I'm telling you to say hello to 5 people today, and where every single person who's gone through TSL and has achieved a high level, a high skillset no matter what it is, if they're 60 and just want to date girls or if they're 45 and want to date a bunch of 20-year-olds or just somebody who wants peace in their life, whatever their skillset is that they've achieved, they will all say comes down to saying hello to 5 people a day. Why? Because it's normal. Get normal.

If you say, "Whatever," then here's the weird thing about the pickup is that they'll say, "Oh, well, so and so does this and they get these results." Man, I've lived that and so many other people in my groups have lived that. Just don't make the same mistakes we made. Don't get lost with your sexuality.

If you're going up to people and you're going crazy on the street and getting some attention, that's cool, you can do that.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So you're talking about what we used to call flash game?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Totally, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: And people used to [unclear 1:02:31], so the dating instructor would do some flash game which basically gets people around you emotional, jumping up and down and stuff like that. And the newbie, the guy goes, "Oh, wow, this is amazing. I've never seen anything like this anywhere in my life," but it's not normal and it's not actually that helpful all the time.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. And then another thing that I would say is to get sexual, so what does that mean? So many guys are out of touch with their sexuality. What does it mean to have your dick? What does it mean to have your sexual urge? What does it mean to want the girls in front of you and learn how to express that?

Now that'll take some time because there's so many different expressions, there's verbal, there's body language, there's with your face and eye contact and tonality, but if you can just get to know, "No, I like these chicks. I don't care if my friends do or don't or whatever," but get into that urge.

If you can really, really discover why you have a cock and balls and why women love it, why women are afraid of it, why feminists get all out of whack about it, where's that fear coming from? And when you start experiencing things, you'll realize that every woman loves dick, loves to be fucked, loves to get your fucking cum out, loves to make her pussy be owned by your dick. She loves to say that, but she won't say that in her social state, she won't say that in her social mind, she won't say that when she doesn't know you.

But if you can get into what it means to be a man that is sexual and then learn how to communicate that to people, it's simple. It's like, "How can I ask a question about that, that's socially acceptable? That can get deeper to find out more about them? That can move into eliciting qualities of her to see if you like it?"

These are all simple things that can be taught, but if you are afraid of your sexuality, there'll be a mask, there'll be someone else's words, they won't be yours and you'll remain confused while maybe getting results or maybe not getting results.

So those forms of being social and being sexual are probably like the biggest starting places that nobody ever wants to start it.

[Angel Donovan]: What was it like to run these points home? It's really the same stuff said over and over again and kind of goes over people's heads and they're like, "That's not cool enough."

[Steve Mayeda]: Okay.

[Angel Donovan]: I'm just wondering, what are the biggest objections? Because you've got your own take and, you know, it's quite an individual approach to this whole subject; what kind of objections and the biggest ones you get from people that are like, "No, that's bullshit. That's not the right way, you should go the other way."

[Steve Mayeda]: In terms of what, in terms of dating?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, this approach to dating, improving your dating, sex and relationships life.

[Steve Mayeda]: Right. So the biggest objections people get is they want what works as quick as possible, which is fine. We have workshops and all that sort of stuff, like every company out there and we do them different and we try and go for a long-term thing, but any workshop out there, TSL online has been around for 5-and-a-half years and it has outperformed any workshop and the reason why is because it's 3 months; 3 months that we work together in a big way.

[Angel Donovan]: Would you call that a residential?

[Steve Mayeda]: No, because it's done online. It's done virtually.

The reason why that happens and we've tested it, I've tested it 4 times with my own groups and then we just know from other companies, but if you've taken a 10-day workshop or a 5-day workshop or reading the fucking hack on how to get whatever tender lay stuff, that might get you a result and that'll get you like 2 or 3 things. Even on a 10-day workshop, you're going to learn 2, 3 things that are very pivotal in your life, but there's only so much you can take in during that time.

So the thing is I always say, if you want something that works, I'll tell you what works, it's something that's a little bit more long-term. If you don't have time for long-term stuff, that's fine, go do something else or do something that's a little bit more on your time frame.

But if you're really saying you want to commit to being better with women, have a good sex life and social life that is yours, just realize that it's not going to be anything immediate. It's probably not going to be something that you're being sold because you're being sold on a pain point or you're being sold on a deficit of what you don't have.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. If it's conjuring up [unclear 1:06:43) in you.

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the big objections that I get.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. Cool. That's a great point and I absolutely agree with it, it takes working over time, like both of us did, right?

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh, absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: It didn't happen in a day. Okay, cool.

So, who besides yourself would you recommend for high quality advice in this area?

[Steve Mayeda]: So there's a couple people. I know a lot of dating coaches and on a personal level, there's always something missing from them, but man, two guys that I always talk about that I really like and that I've worked with a lot, well first off, I'll go with Zan. So Zan and I have a lot of crossover clients.

It's funny because this guy called in and wanted to know more about TSL and he was like with the Amorata, the certain philosophy... and the real good match point for Zan's stuff and my stuff is that it says the same thing, but again, we come with a direct application and kind of that social dynamics field where they're heavy, heavy on the philosophy; we kind of have both. I'm not diminishing anything from his stuff.

I'll tell you this, all of Zan's coaches that I've met and hung out with, they've stayed at my house or spent a lot of time with them, they're the greatest dudes. They're just great, great guys and for a singular kind of expression, the Ars Amorata crowd to produce that so consistently, that says something about them. They're just great guys.

And then the next guy would be Eric Hypnotica. Good friend of mine. Just super good guy.

In 2009 is when I met him and he was one of the few guys I could actually talk to about sex and what it did to you and how it fucked with you internally. Maybe it could be better. It was like, "Hey, man, I'm fucking all these people and it isn't good," and he's like, "Look, it is good. It's just the you part that's bad."

What he told me was, "Get in touch with your sex. Get in touch with what it means." A lot of the stuff that I'm saying. And so that guy is a great guy. Walks the walk, through and through with all of his life.

Maria, my wife, we're friends with him and his wife and we've spent time at his place and what he actually lives and what he teaches is just him, there's no difference. Great guy. So those two guys I recommend highly.

[Angel Donovan]: Great. We've had them both on the show and I know Eric too, great guy.

So you said you had some downloads with those things?

[Steve Mayeda]: Yeah. So guys, if you've been listening to this whole thing and being like, "This is kind of interesting," basically, what we want to do is give you an opportunity to really get to know what TSL is about. So if you go to Thesexuallife.com/datingskills, you're basically taken to a page where you put in your email address and you get one of those fancy pages where it's like, "Learn everything."

But what we had for you, I'll tell you exactly what it is. You're going to download a PDF. You put in your email address and all that fun stuff and we're not a big spamming company or anything like that, and you're going to download something called Seducing the Female Mind and this is actually very cool.

This came from interviews with women of what they say about sex like, "I love dick. I love to make it cum. On a date when I know I like a guy, here's what happens when my pussy gets wet." And then how we can put it into ways of saying that to women so it'll connect to them.

So it's like you can talk to a girl and just say, "Hey, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but do you get turned on in like a different way than other girls?" And they can say yes or no to that and if they say yes you can go like, "Man, it's so funny because how a woman gets turned on," it's just a way to get curious and conversational about those hardcore topics like, "How does your pussy get wet? How is your pussy juice different than other women? How do you like dick?" And all that sort of stuff, but also include the other download of the TSL 5 dailies and that'll kind of breakdown what we do internally, that's giving a little bit of a social dynamic that's highly geared at a female perspective and sex.

[Angel Donovan]: Thanks, man. Okay, last question and then you are free to go. Thanks so much for your time, man, I really appreciate it.

[Steve Mayeda]: Oh, no problem, man.

[Angel Donovan]: We ask this of everyone. What would be your top 3 recommendations for someone starting from row 0 and he just wants to, like we were saying earlier, he wants the magic bullet. He wants to get good as fast as possible. What would be your shortcut method, the 3 top things he should focus on if he wants to move this along?

[Steve Mayeda]: So, number one, I'm going to say, "Hey, sign up for TSL online," but if you can't do that, check this out. The Sexual Life is a company and we pump out a lot of free content. We actually just gave away a free course that was $100.00. It's a 2-week, 9-hour long video course that basically teaches you everything; that is, I think, a really, really awesome way to get started.

But man, you want to know what's going to change you? What's going to change you are results and experience. If you want results with women, get sexual. Get sexual as easy and as quickly as possible; that is so fucking important.

So how the fuck do I do that? Go out and talk to women. Go out and learn how to touch women. Go out and learn how to get them close to you. Feel what it's like when their tits are pressed up against you, when their fucking pussies warm up and they're next to your body.

Know what it's like to look into a woman's eyes and feel that; that, to me, is so fundamentally important, to get sexual, and you can get there quick.

Now, if you're somebody that has major social anxiety and you haven't talked to any women, it's going to take you some time, man. It's going to take you a couple months to be able to get dates and stuff like that.

But if you're a guy, then you should do that, man. That's awesome. Just think about that. If you get past that hump for 3 months or 2 months to where you can start dating people, after that, the doors are open because if you're that guy, like a lot of clients of mine that come to me and they get some dates, they talk to women and they've been involved in pickup and they just can't make it work or there's no consistency to it, something's off or something's wrong or they don't feel good about it. If you're there and you can talk to people, in a couple weeks, you could have a life that is a sexual life. It depends on how much time you have to put into it, but if you have 2, 3 days a week and you're dating in whatever venue, man, it is an awesome experience.

If you can get sexual and start hooking up and feeling women, feeling your intent, feeling your balls, your dick and all that sort of stuff and knowing what that means, you'll have your whole world open up in front of you, that's why we call it The Sexual Life because once you do that, the rest of your life comes into play.

There's very few things in this world that are easy to access that are of our natural state and sex is one of them and you could get that today.

[Angel Donovan]: Thank so much, Steve.