#86 Can a Tony Robbins Seminar Help You with Women? with David Tian

[Angel Donovan]: David good to have you here in London.

[David Tian]: Hey, great to be here Man. This is my first time really exploring the city.

[Angel Donovan]: That's cool. When you told me that I was like, "Wow, you're so well-traveled. It doesn't make sense."

[David Tian]: I've been here with girls and I'm always doing girl stuff which, to me, is not exploring the city. I've seen all the shopping malls. I've seen all of the dessert places but, I didn't really get to my thing which is more of the history, the culture and the rich history and heritage, philosophically, literature-wise. Yeah, it's been pretty cool.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, London has a lot of variety, multicultural.

[David Tian]: It's multicultural. No, it's pretty cool.

[Angel Donovan]: Did you get your custom shoes?

[David Tian]: Oh man yes, we'll talk about that later. I spent way more than I expected but, I'm very pleased.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool. So, we are going to talk about that's going to help you guys too. Why are you here David? Why are you in London?

[David Tian]: I am in London because, on the way back from New York, I stopped through to do "Unleash the Power Within," with Tony Robbins. The reason I was flying into New York was also to do "Unleash the Power Within." So, I've walked on fire twice this month.

[Angel Donovan]: Right so, this is the Tony Robbins' main seminar. It's one big event, entry level but, David's now done it...

[David Tian]: ...three times.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: ...in the past five months.

[Angel Donovan]: He's getting all his friends to do it too.

[David Tian]: ...in three different cities, of course.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[David Tian]: Yeah and I'm even contemplating doing it again in six months or so in another continent.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah and we were talking about it earlier, I'm thinking about and another guy who was with, we're thinking about sending our families to it as well. So obviously, it made a big impression on us. Today, we wanted to talk a bit about, what are the ramifications of all the stuff we did for the dating-sex-relationships world we talk about often here.

So, I can think of many things. First of all, I think what's really important is that the biggest problem that guys have when it comes to dating, sex and relationships is actually is not really specific to dating, sex and relationships. It's about change. It's about changing themselves.

After this experience, which kind of blew me away, I didn't know what to expect. I've listened to Tony Robbins for years and I like his stuff. I have to say that it was a complete game-changer going to the actual seminar experience. It was beyond anything I could have really imagined and it's hard for us to convey that but, you'll get a little bit of an idea.

[David Tian]: Well, if you clicked on this interview and listened to it, you probably are positively predisposed to a Tony Robbins but, to put this out there, I wasn't. I went to the first one to meet some friends who were going and they got me this group-package deal. So, it was pretty cheap and I happen to be in the same country. So, I thought, "Well, I'll just pop down and meet these guys." There were about 20 of my friends there and that was the main reason.

Even during the four-day event, I skipped half of it the first time to hang out with these guys who weren't as into it but, they all, if you ask them now, they're willing to put down five-figures again just to do this again. But, the first time were so skeptical, we thought that we were really by cool skipping stuff. "Hey, we're going to see the iPhone 6 launch" or whatever, totally skipping everything. Even just going to half of it, changed my life.

Obviously, I went back to it later at my first opportunity to do it right. I totally understand the skepticism. My view of Tony Robbins was, he's this guy on infomercial, he's a little bit sleazy, he's probably going to try to hypnotize me and try to make me buy more stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: I think he did hypnotize us. I think he actually did.

[David Tian]: But, it was amazing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah but, it was amazing. Of course, we would think that afterwards.

[David Tian]: Yeah, he did a very good job. So, it was bringing value and it changed my life but, I understand if there's any kind of skepticism but, it's not what you think it is, if you feel like it could be any kind of like sleaziness to it.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah alright absolutely, it's very surprising on how intense it is and how it really, really gets to you. Like, I was taking an emotional journey in some of the stuff that happens. They call it Dickens’ Process. You'll have people screaming in the room. It's a bit difficult to explain here.

Basically, what he's trying to do is trying to create leverage in you to change things in your life that you want to change but, because of the way your mind is programed right now, it makes it really difficult because, you have conflict, you have things holding you back. Obviously, we've been doing the dating stuff for a long time so, I think our primary motivation was for other areas of our life but, I think still, I got some dating stuff in terms of quality relationships probably helping to eliminate still some of the bad beliefs and things which will undermine my satisfaction.

Tony's very focused on, you can do what you want but, you have to do something...lead a life basically, that's going to make you satisfied. One of the points that I just wanted to bring up in the dating world is like what he talks about (because, we had this discussion with you, Henry and I) is that the motivations for doing something can sometimes lead to complete non-satisfaction, kind of a non-event, just like doing it and not getting anywhere versus feeling absolutely amazing because, you did get what you want.

[David Tian]: Right yes so, on the first day...well, I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're getting to but, one of the areas that this spoke to me was, the first day he asks...or, he lead you through an exercise where you ask yourself what were the underlining motivation or that drive you to do things. For me, it turned out to be...and this is from last year...that I discovered that most of my life I was driven to find significance. Then, the second most important value for me was love and relationships.

The way that I cashed out was, I was looking for significance by my relationships, by how people respond to me in this way and that. Of course, that will set you up for emptiness because, you're constantly looking to other people to make you feel significant and that's just a recipe and formula for disaster. I mean, that's neediness and dependency. If you're really, really good at that, if you're really good at getting happiness and fulfillment from relationships, it can take you a very long time to realize that that's what's happening.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: You know because, you're just really good at getting girls to do stuff for you and all that and it did take me several years to see that because, I was so good at that. Going to Tony Robbins and confronting that over the months that I was going to these different events has lead me to reorder these values so that I'm getting happiness. I'm getting fulfillment. I'm getting peace of mind, security, rootedness, being grounded, all of these really healthy things. So, my day-to-day emotional life is really steady. I'm also getting attraction from people that would be supportive and healthy for my life and my psychology because, all of that plays out to support the different values.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting and I think my values were the same because, what Tony was asking...I mean, also just explain, significance is kind of Tony's word for the ego.

[David Tian]: Sure, right.

[Angel Donovan]: That's how I think of it. It's the ego. So, if I take some dating examples like in the pick-up-artist community, people post lay reports often because, they want to feel significant to the people on the forums or they'll tell people that they've slept with 100 girls plus or maybe they're even chasing just kind of a quantity goal. "I want to sleep with 100 women or 200 women, " of whatever it is because of significance. "I just want to be able to tell people that I slept with that many women."

So, I kind of like the way Tony put it at the end. He's like, "You will be fucking burdened and destroyed." Significance for him was the worst, worst thing although, it can be powerful in terms of driving your to achieve.

[David Tian]: Achievements, right yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Right so, I have to say, like even in my career before I was kind of driven like that. Just to say, you see it in different parts of your life but, you'll see it everywhere because that's your main value. So, I certainly suffered from the same thing, like significance was definitely a motivator for me. It helped to get me achievement but, at one point, I was really unhappy and I couldn't figure it out. It took me a while. If I had just gone to Tony Robbins seminar at that point, it probably would have been a lot quicker and I would have figured it out.

[David Tian]: Well, let's dial back to the average guy starting out in dating is looking for what to say and what the next step is. "I've opened. Now, what do I say? Okay, I transition into a conversation. Now, what do I say after that? How do I close? How I do I physically escalate?" They're looking for it step by step by step and they don't see the big picture.

The big picture is how do you see yourself, how do you define yourself in terms of who you are and if you are congruent with who you are then, what to say, how to stand, what kind of voice do you have would all become natural and effortless as a result of figuring out the right definition of who you are.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: "Unleash the Power Within" event is this four-day event which is just to get you deep, deep, deep into who you are, how you define yourself, what your identity is. Once you're clear on that, once you have the reasons for it and he takes your through some crazy stuff.

He takes you back to your childhood and even earlier like to your birth and gets you to think about why you have this drive for significance or for whatever it is that your top values are that are leading your to unhappiness or to feel empty or needing validation. Why do you have this process and he does it in front of 7000 people sometimes. He'll take one individual and lead them through that and you see this. It's incredible.

Like, "Your dad this to you", or like, "When you were a kid, how did you relate to your mom, mother and father? Who did you love the most? Whose approval did you want the most?" Just great questions that lead you to think about how you became who are now and how you can change that so that you set yourself up for happiness and fulfillment.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's a key factor in his approach actually. He asks questions to get the answers from you. He's not telling your how to live your life or what it's about. He just keeps asking questions and he does case studies like grab somebody in the audience.

He'll just say, "Is somebody depressed in the room?" or like some other issue. Then, he'll just start asking them questions until he gets them to go down a path of their own understanding. So, he's really like...he's been doing this for 38 years so, he's obviously very good at it but, to get that to come out of the person, it really...that's kind of the power of what he did and how I feel like I was impacted because, he was getting me to come up with the answers.

The fact that it's three or four days...we only went to three days this time because, the fourth day is about health and stuff. It a little bit different but, the fact that it's three days, it gives you this time also kind of outside of life to kind of adjust and to think through the stuff that he's giving you in layer because every day, it's like a new layer he's adding to your identity to try and figure out. Basically, he's trying to get at your best self.

[David Tian]: Yeah, right.

[Angel Donovan]: He's trying to discover your best self, your identity and that's going to serve you much better in life.

[David Tian]: Yeah, yeah and the experience itself is pretty amazing. It's an immersive experience. When I first heard about the amount of time we'd have to spend there, I thought it was more like, breaking you down and your resistance so that he could make you buy more stuff. So, you're there from like 9 a.m. until 11 p.m. three days in a row or something like that, like long hours, over 12 hours a day.

One of the most amazing things is watching him do it without going off the stage hardly. He might take one pee break during the whole thing and just never being off. He's on the whole time. What it does for you as a person in the audience, as a participant is that you don't get to hide behind a lot of excuses. What is does is it wears away the bullshit that you normally would, the defenses you would normally put up to just the questions he's asking.

Like you're saying, he's just leading you through this process of questions and he doesn't give you the content so to speak because, that's not what you're there for because, content you can deliver in many different ways. But, for this experience, it's about you and you confronting and dealing honestly with these series of questions.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I think that one of the key things also that's really relevant to guys is how he gets, kind of programs people to take action afterwards. He's really concerned with, "Once you leave this seminar, are you going to do anything? Am I going to have any impact on your life or are you just going to go away, which kind of happens with seminars sometimes and you just won't do anything again? You won't approach or you won't do anything that...you won't study, you won't take the actions that you need to."

So, he talks about taking massive action and one of the ways he did that was creating what he called "leverage" which I think is probably one of the most powerful things I felt because, he makes you, at one point in this process on day three, focus on the things that are...the bleeps that are basically undermining your ability to get what you want in life. He makes you focus on that for however long it was. It felt like 20 minutes maybe more. Maybe it was a lot longer because you don't really know how much time is going past.

[David Tian]: Yeah, almost an hour actually.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay yeah well so, he...

[David Tian]: It felt like it was 20 minutes for you right?

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right, I mean honestly, you're doing these 12-hour days and you don't see the time pass because, he's getting your engaged the whole time. It's a life experience. It's like something special because, we hardly even ate. We weren't concerned with eating or anything and we're just like so focused.

[David Tian]: Yes, yeah I carried two or three protein bars and that got me through to dinner.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, we had a couple of protein bars and stuff like that just to tell you how focused we were. I did see that some people were eating and stuff and I saw that they were not engaged and that's kind of a choice. Like you said, the first time you did it, you made this choice to not engage, to be cool which is obviously, there's a pressure which is often around us. I saw it in that room as well that some people were like, "I'm too cool for this."

[David Tian]: Yeah, right.

[Angel Donovan]: But perhaps, thanks to your experience, I realized if I don't engage with this, I'm not going to get the real value of it.

[David Tian]: Yeah right, you learned from me.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: My error yes, exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[David Tian]: Yeah, yeah that Saturday afternoon, don't skip it like I did the first time and the whole Dickens’ thing was actually over four hours. I surreptitiously recorded it on audio. What he'll do is, there's this thing called "fractionation". He'll take you out of state and bring you back in deeper. So, he'll like relieve the tension and bring you back in deeper.

The guys who understand the importance what is usually called "inner game", this is the best "inner game" training for any area, dating, wealth, fitness, health that you could have because, he talks about having enough pain and pleasure associated with what you want to do. If, like you're saying, "leverage", right?

What he does mentally for you is to lead you into a process where you associate enough pain with the negative results of taking the wrong actions so that you get leverage on yourself to make sure that you don't slack off, you don't go down the wrong path. He doesn't tell you, "Feel this bad thing." You do it to yourself and it's incredible.

[Angel Donovan]: Everyone in the room's, well not everyone but, a lot of people are crying in the room.

[David Tian]: Yeah, it's kind of scary.

[Angel Donovan]: It's kind of scary if you think about 7000 people. He does like...you guys have probably heard of neuro linguistic programming right? So, he's using these kinds of techniques but, what he doesn't basically is make...it does what...a lot of the guys were successful in this dating sphere that we know, they hit bottom at one time. I don't know, I think you hit bottom as well?

[David Tian]: Sure, yeah. It hit many bottoms.

[Angel Donovan]: That was the trigger that meant that we got better faster than a lot of the other guys who have not been able to get as successful as possible. For me, I lost my job. There was a dot.com crash at the same time as a really good job and there weren't any other jobs around. My girlfriend dumped me and I was in a new country. I didn't know anyone. Boom.

It really made me rethink a lot of things and learning pick up and then, dating was one of the things I started to invest my time in. I had a lot of pain the first time I had been dumped by a girl. So, there was a lot of pain to get over, I really took it badly because, I had a big ego actually, funny enough. I was like, "I can't believe I got dumped by a girl." So, I guess you hit some kind of bottom as well?

[David Tian]: Yeah, in fact, I just discovered to achieve success in life, I had to artificially inflate the bottom. So, I kind of did it in a sloppy and kind of amateurish way for myself compared to what Tony does in one afternoon to you.

So, for instance for fitness , I had to look at myself in the mirror and get really pissed and dissatisfied with the way I was. I knew that if it was...I could just say, "Hey, it's okay," and I was if I just stepped back and looked at it. I was okay. I was like all my friends but, I wanted more and to know that I kept...for instance, I would download all these photos of fitness guys that I wanted a body like. I kept looking at them, not in a gay way but, that would become the norm.

In other words, I raised my standards mentally. That had to be the norm for me. So, every time I looked in the mirror and I saw all this fat and all this and for a girl who becomes anorexic, this is a bad thing but, for a guy who wants to get to the next level like I was in fitness that had to be the way that I saw myself.

With dating too, I will often exaggerate the negative to just push myself out of that slump. Literally, this would take weeks of agony and dissonance cognitively and what's amazing is Tony Robbins does it for me in an afternoon. Right?

[Angel Donovan]: I would say this is the least, although it's uncomfortable, but, it's in a safe environment and it's very, very fast and very intense compared to...the things we did basically, we had to take this pain for a while and it probably went on for a while for most people before we had enough leverage to start taking action. So, you need this leverage. You need this pain and I think one of the biggest problems is that guys are avoiding the pain all together and that's why you never take action because, you don't want rejection, you don't want to look at why you're not doing it and so on.

[David Tian]: Yeah right, one of the examples he brings up is if you guys think about a time where somebody you know who's changed something massively in their life, usually, there's a long period preceding that where they're very dissatisfied but, not so dissatisfied that they're going to change. Then, there's one event or one incident or one day where they're just like, "Enough, enough is enough. That's it. I'm going to change. I'm going to quit smoking. I'm going to quit piggy out. I'm going to quit this obesity. I'm going to do something about it" and then, they change.

What you can do, what Tony leads you through in this experience is to speed up that whole process and just make it instant and just go an just do it now. Change it now.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely and Tony even has a name for that area you were saying where people are dissatisfied but they're not feeling enough negative emotion to take action and that's just like, "no man's land." He's like, "If you're stuck in 'no man's land', you're not even living your life," basically.

I totally get it especially having lived the intensity of emotions he gives you because, he also gives you the pleasure side afterwards in this process which is awesome. You really start to magnify why you want what you want. You clarify your goals whether it's a quality girlfriend or whatever you're looking for, you learn to basically put more emotional power on that so it motivates you more and you start taking action.

[David Tian]: One other thing that got me to come back to the second which was the big step for me. The first time, I got less than half the content but, one big takeaway was the importance of physiology and how you can use your posture, physical movements, facial expressions, the sound of your voice to change how you feel in the moment in an instant.

That made such a big difference in my life that just by getting more energy, I got way more success much faster in so many areas of my life, fitness, money, even with women at that point. Even if I was super tired on two-hours sleep, I could just pop into it sexual state transference immediately which, I usually needed a warm up to get to that point before.

I know in your podcast, you've been emphasizing the importance of the bio-chemistry, testosterone levels and all that. A big part of what I see in guys I'm coaching is that their energy levels are low especially if they have a day job or 60-hour-a-week or more job and they're burnt out. On a Friday night, they force themselves to go to the club and there's deadness in their eyes. I can almost immediately detect just by looking at them that they're not going to turn any women on.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely, it's not going to work even if you try. I mean, I've been through that situation myself where I was actually very successful for a while and then, I got over stressed with work. I was going out but, really half-heartedly. This is when I was in Shanghai for a bit. It just wasn't working anymore. Guess what? My head was not in the game at all. I had low energy and I was really struggling with that and I had to learn how to recover and get that energy back before I was able to have my usually results.

[David Tian]: What was crazy was the month after I took the first "UPW- Unleash the Power Within", I was hitting workouts with four-hours sleep which normally, I would never have done. I would need at least six hours of sleep otherwise I might burn muscle and I might injury myself but, I felt so energetic with four-hours sleep just because, I knew how to take control of my physiology through that three-day event. I would make my move, pop back into the state and maybe I would have sip of bullet-proof coffee, I might have one of those and I'm good to go. I'm like, "Fuck it, I'll just go to the gym, see what happens" and I crush that fucking workout.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely, yeah.

[David Tian]: I keep up with it. I wouldn't recommend it to guys who haven't done the Tony Robbins' event or even if you have, I don't know how normal this is but, I still can do that. Four hours of sleep, build muscle, burn fat and it's just by taking charge of my physiology which gives it...there's a bio-feedback loop to your brain which then, your brain programs the rest of your body, I think and you're able to process. You're able to recover faster and all that so, just that alone was worth going for that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah the energy thing like is amazing. Like we were at a three-day event, 12 hours each day, no rest, not eating and we were just going the whole time. You always have to look to people who are exactly who you want, right, in life. They get exactly the results you want. Look at Tony on the stage, you have never seen someone with so much energy in all your life. He's on the stage 12 hours, he's pumping, he's in his "peak state" as he calls and he is. He's high energy. He's controlling a room of 7000 people. That's not an easy thing to do and he's just in the zone the whole time.

[David Tian]: If you go on www.YouTube.com and search for Oprah at the Tony Robbins' event, she says she was just going to stay for a couple hours to get enough footage. She stayed for the whole first day, walked on the fire and there were times she looked in the camera and says, "I don't know how he does it. I'm watching him. He has not stopped talking and he has not come off the stage. I've been to the restroom three times already."

That was my experience. I couldn't believe what he was doing and just the energy alone, I think a lot of guys who are trying to get good with dating are very cerebral. They don't appreciate the importance of the physical in energy especially. What a woman is looking for or from you is that energy of not just having fun and good-to-know shit but, also getting it up and satisfying her sexually for hours on end. Not that you have to do that but, she needs to see that you're able to do that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah absolutely, health and energy levels are a huge indicator for women and they'll respond to that in the clubs even before you're in a relationship or anything.

[David Tian]: In fact, you've probably covered this in your other podcasts but, women can smell your testosterone level especially if they're ovulating, especially if they're horny basically and they're ready to go.

[Angel Donovan]: Then they'll go for the most testosterone guy in the club.

[David Tian]: Yeah and that's got nothing to do with what you say, with what you wear even and it's just the pheromones you're emitting.

[Angel Donovan]: Did you have an experience when...because, I've probably talked about this before on the podcast but, I wasn't working out for a time and in the 2000s, mid-2000s or something, I started working out, heavy weights, all this stuff, changed things, changed my diet. So, I got bigger, more muscle, obviously, higher testosterone. I fixed that too and I was getting all of these, we call them "proximity alerts".

Basically, I'd be sitting in Starbucks and a girl would come and sit next to me. I noticed that. I was like, "This didn't used to happen." Then, you'd start talking to her and she'd be like, "Oh hey, how are you doing." Right? That happened a lot more after I kind of fixed my testosterone base.

[David Tian]: Yes, sometimes it's hard because, it confounds with the visual effect of having a fit body but, you're right, when you work out and you get a decent body and then, you stop going. Your body hasn't really changed but, you just have lower energy.

[Angel Donovan]: Right

[David Tian]: Yeah, you see the difference of how women react to you. Here's the cool thing I got form Tony Robbins, I started getting really fast hook-ups. So, there it is guys, if you want to get some ONS on a regular basis, go to Tony Robbins. There are also some cute girls there.

[Angel Donovan]: There were some and they're intelligent, they're driven.

[David Tian]: Yeah, it draws a good crowd.

[Angel Donovan]: It's a great place to meet quality girls.

[David Tian]: So, that's an aside.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: "If you want to get fast sex..." So, what I noticed was if I was feeling...like 3 a.m., because in Asian, clubs are open until 6 the places that I was going. If you can get yourself into state by commanding your physiology, like you make your move and all that which he teaches you in the first day. At 4 a.m., if you're wide awake and your eyes are like...so you're emitting energy, women just start looking at you, staring at you, dancing up on you, going up and giving you drinks.

The other guys with me, my other coaches, they're looking at me like, "Whew," and I'm like, "Dude, go talk to that," he's getting a wink. They're like, "Dude, I'm so tired. It's 5 a.m." It's like, "That's no excuse."

[Angel Donovan]: So, then it becomes like endurance. You've got endurance so, you've got this competitive advantage at 3 or 4 in the morning because, you were able to control your state and your energy.

[David Tian]: You've got your second wind, your third wind, your fourth wind. You have no competition because, all of the guys are tired, they're drinking. I was drinking too but, I was still able to command my state. Then, the thing was there were so many girls, my problem was how to choose which one. I felt bad for ones that kept looking at me but, I wanted to bring them over and introduce them to my guy friends but, they didn't have Tony Robbins. They didn't have their state.

[Angel Donovan]: So, we've been blown away. You probably get that for this. We've been blown away by this. I'm probably going to do some more of them like David has done in the future because, I also think you get additional benefits for redoing it because, it's an emotional experience. He's drumming stuff into you beyond [inaudible] and LP stuff. It's actually going, if you redo it like David has done several time, it's got stronger and stronger effects, deeper and deeper effect.

[David Tian]: Yeah, in fact after my first event, I was already changing my curriculum in the Dating Academy.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[David Tian]: So, I added extra videos to "Limitless" on energy. I added extra videos, in fact, an entire program on identity, on defining who you are, being congruent with that and asking the "meaning" questions. I knew about these "meaning" questions, the "meaning" exercises but, this was a whole other level of going deep into your psychology and history.

[Angel Donovan]: He's the master of change and I think both of us, you're putting stuff in your program now and "Limitless" is your new main program, right?

[David Tian]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: I'm doing the same. I'm like thinking of the Academy, "Wow. Like, I've got to get this [inaudible] thing because, it's going to help guys." So, I'm doing the same thing. I'm thinking like, "How can I take this stuff from Tony Robbins the master of change and use some of it to help guys get more results." You know what we're basically saying like this is a really awesome thing to go to. You guys should definitely consider it. It's just under $1000, I think or something like that.

[David Tian]: Yeah, there are different price points.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah but, it's totally worth it. I mean, you'll go away. You'll really feel like you've changed your life and it's an amazing experience. It's so much fun and you get to walk on hot coals.

[David Tian]: Yeah and in fact, one other thing I would say, if you're looking at which price point to come in on, if you can get at the VIP level so, you're not at the back of the room. In Dallas especially, I would show up late because, I was a slacker and I would sit in the back of the room and the energy was totally different.

There are people checking their phones. There are people eating in between, a like big sandwiches and it's very distracting and they weren't into it. Then, you get closer to the front or you, there was certain times during the event where you can go right up to the stage and just like a mosh-pit kind of thing and that is a lot better for your transformation because, one of the lessons he gives is that proximity is power.

So, the people you associate with, your mentors and your peers will determine who you become and just in this four-day event, if you can associate with the people who going to have the biggest transformation, that will unconsciously effect you. On a non-conscious level but, it will take you to the next level much easier.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely and so, it's not even $800 more but, the point is, most people will take the slightly cheaper option. It's the really motivated people that are like going for that slightly more expensive option and that's why you're surrounding yourself also with people who are just more driven because, they've self-selected to put themselves on the front and just pay that bit more because they're more interested in developing themselves.

So, that was the key thing but, most of the room was engaged. Maybe like...

[David Tian]: Well, we were closer to the front.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, that's true but, it's just amazing how engaged people are. It's like a huge party.

[David Tian]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: At the end of it, it's a life experience. I guess that's what I want to say. I don't want to sound like we're selling or anything but, it's just something we've been really excited about.

[David Tian]: Yeah, go check it out Man. You'll thank us later.