Ep. #46 How to Make Your Move (Kissing and Touching Women) with Jason Capital

[Angel Donovan]: Welcome! Episode 46 of Dating Skills Podcast, and we have a huge subject this week. Why’d I say huge? This was actually the biggest problem I had to personally get over myself in order to get more successful with women and to get kind of the lifestyle I wanted in terms of dating. It's also the most common barrier for all men, so it's not just me. I went through it so I really understand it myself. Took me a while to get over it. But I know that it's actually the blocking point for most men also.

So once you've got round to being able to approach women, being able to talk to them, make conversation with them, learning how to attract them, what comes next? The next thing is getting physical, sexual with her. So making your move, kissing her, learning how to take her home, how to take her to bed, all of these things we have a lot of fear over. Most guys have a lot of fear about making the move because that's the point that they feel like they're going to get rejected and it's going to feel the worst if they do get rejected.

So this is a really valuable subject. I'm sure a lot of you out there are struggling with this or haven't really got this down and don’t feel comfortable with this area of your life. So today we are talking to a guy who has worked a lot on this particular subject, so it's really great to have him on the show. His name is Jason Capital. You may have heard of him because he's been training for a few years in Los Angeles. So he's been training guys in clubs and bars, teaching them how to approach and attract women.

For the last year he's changed that focus and he's really been working on developing training courses to teach more men to allow more men to buy his knowledge and learn from him. And he's become really popular just over the last year so much so that we've had a lot of user request for reviews, and we've reviewed a couple of his courses in October this last month and they both got solid ratings straight out. So I'm really happy to have him on the show. I know he's got some great-quality advice specifically on this subject, so looking forward to dig into it and help you guys get over this little barrier here.

Now let's get to this interview with Jason Capital. Hey man, it's good to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

[Jason Capital]: I am fantastic, sir. How are you?

[Angel Donovan]: I'm doing great too. We're both in sunny places so, you know, that does it well for us. I want to get into some background about you so everyone who listens to the show knows exactly who you are and how your life is and everything. So like where are you living these days? Where are you hanging out and what do you spend your time doing? Where do you meet women? What’s your life like?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, so I live on the Main Street of Los Angeles, California right now. I used to live on the West side of LA, which is more near the beach. About a month ago I actually moved out more into the Beverly Hills area as I was getting more opportunities with like radio and TV and stuff like that. So this is just a little bit closer to that, so I wanted a location for that.

Dude, my life in the last year or so has purposefully and consciously become way like more focused and I guess you can call it my path or my mission or like the thing that I'm trying to create in life, which some combination of like a great social life and a great business. Those are like the two things I focus on. So if someone were to ask me like what a typical day was like, like a year ago I literally broke out of my life and I was like, “This is what I want my life to look like a year from now. Literally I want to wake up, I want to work for a few hours, and then I want to have sex.”

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: “Then I'm going to work for a few more hours, and then I want to work, I want to go to the gym, I want to have sex, I want to eat food, I want to read, and I want to go to sleep.” Like that was really what I wanted to set out and create, and that’s basically what it's become. So it's pretty good. [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent, excellent. Sounds good. How old are you?

[Jason Capital]: I am 25 now.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, cool. You're pretty young still, so I guess, what’s the longest relationship you've had and how many relationships have you had so far?

[Jason Capital]: You know what? It's the first time I've ever been asked that question.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: So I was a virgin until I was 20. Since then I've had three relationships and the longest one lasted about six or seven months, I think. If she heard this she’d be pissed off I didn't know how long it was.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] It was something like that, I don't know. It's funny because the first… I started out as a virgin and did not know what to say to girls.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: I would get tongue-tied, nervous, boring, afraid of rejection, like all kinds of issues. I dealt with basically everything. And once I really got things going and I had a lot of momentum with game and picking up chicks and stuff like that, that was all I wanted to do. So up until maybe last year, my sole focus was basically cold approach, pick up girls, go to bars, take them home, sometimes go back to the bar and try and get more girls. Like that was all I really did. And then about six months ago or so, my mindset actually has kind of shifted from more like what I call a cold approach mindset to just more like a cool guy, social circle mindset.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: And that’s changed a lot of things in my personal life, in my social life, in my sex life, and truthfully it's been way fucking better this way.

[Angel Donovan]: What do you find has changed? Is it where you're putting your time in or, you know, does it make you feel better? I mean, like could you describe that a bit? That would be interesting.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. Yeah, I think that especially like if you're a dude who was listening right now and you're in this like cold approach mindset. What I think is really strange about this whole community is that so much time and energy and effort and thought is put into and invested in cold approaching girls, in like this idea of you're walking down the street and you see a cut girl and you have to go approach her and approach anxiety and what do you say and what do you do and what if this happens and what if people… like there's so much focus put on that thing, and when you put so much focus on anything, you make it seem a lot bigger than it actually is.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Like approaching is not a big deal. It never was supposed to be. Like it's nothing. Like if you're a guy who doesn’t know how to approach girls, if you were to put the time in to learn and you became like amazing at approaching girls and it became effortless and natural for you, you would turn around and say, “I put all that, like I worried so much about that, like for that? Like that was nothing.”

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Because what happens is when you start approaching girls you notice that you can open like anything. You can start a conversation, anything.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: And after 10 seconds you're already talking about something else. So it was like I never understood why guys put so much time and concern into this approach when it's literally like a microscopic part of the big picture and what matters when it comes to becoming like a badass with women.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jason Capital]: Does it make sense so far?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that makes total sense.

[Jason Capital]: Yes.

[Angel Donovan]: I think part of the focus on cold approach is good in a way, right? Because it's just something new that they haven't done and it's good to get that experience and kind of, as you say, it becomes a non-issue, right? As you've done, a lot of guys start focusing more on building social circles and something that’s a bit more lasting than one cold approach, you've done it and there's no value to it the next day kind of thing. But if you build social connections and a social life, then it's there the next day. So there's a big difference in that.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly, and that was what, you know, so from 20 to 24, that's all I was doing, day game, bar game, club game, doctor’s office game.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Like that was all I did, was the cold approach, and it was like there was no idea of patience or long game or building it up over time. It was like I'm going to either burn this candle now and fuck it or I'm just going to burn the candle and not be able to fuck it. Like that was the mindset. And what always struck me as ignorant or just stupid about this whole approach was that there was no ROI in doing it. Like the only return investment you could ever get was that if it worked a small percent of the time, then you would have sex with a girl and that would be it. And what I found was there’s a…

A guy came into my life and has become a very good friend of mine. His name is Greg Greenway and he was in social circle training at that time. And he kind of showed me like, “Dude, you have such sick cold approach game and bar game and pulling girls home and shit. If you just took those skills and you applied them to more of like a social circle paradigm, your life would change.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: And I was like, “Alright, I’ll try it for a little bit and see what happens.” And the last six months or so my life has just been insane, dude. So now it's like if I go out with friends, I'm not going out with a mindset of like I need to pull girls home tonight, I need to have one-night stands, I need to cold approach all these girls. I really barely even have to cold approach girls anymore.

Because what happened was first that I got with him—you know, I have these skills, I have the ability to like open a girl, banter, turn her, flirt or make her chase me, all that shit—we would go out, and instead of me going to approach some hot girl to try and, like I said, burn the candle, instead I would go up there and just be friends with her…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: …just talk a couple of minutes and then “put her in my friend zone” and then have her join our group. And no one’s hitting on her. No one’s like trying to game her. We're just like we're cool fucking guys hanging out, we're going to bring her into our world, and when we do that, and then it's hang out, now you have a good time. She introduces some of her friends. You don’t try and fuck them either, okay? I know a lot of guys listening are like, “Alright, well, I can fuck the friends.” Like, no.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Chill out and don’t try to fuck those girls either. Just be cool and have fun. Because girls are very aware of like when a guy is like trying to push some agenda or when he just is cool and laid back and wants nothing, and they want to be with the second guy. They want to be friends with that guy.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: So they come and hang out with us. We all exchange phone numbers. We’re like, “Yeah, what are you guys doing tomorrow?” “Okay, I'm going to go here,” or “I’ll go there.” “That'll be great.” Boom, so we go out the next night. And now it's me and Greg and we have four girls rolling with us. We're not trying to fuck them.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Again, not trying to fuck them but just being friends with them. They're in our friend zone.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: We go out, and now any girl in that place that we want to talk to, these girls are like, they're literally asking us, like, “Alright, so what girls you want to talk to?” Like, “Who do you want us to introduce you to?” And it was like instant, and I was like, “Holy shit, like you’ve got to be kidding me. It's that easy? Like it was that simple?” Because obviously you could ask any girl on any street in any country anywhere and you could say, “Listen, do you feel more comfortable when you meet a guy through a friend or when he just randomly approaches you at a bar or on the street?”

[Angel Donovan]: Totally.

[Jason Capital]: And there is a certain subconscious like level of trust that happens when we meet people through a friend as opposed to like a random cold approach. So all of a sudden all these four years I spent in the fucking trenches like getting this cold approach thing and like getting the first five minutes fantastic and the seduction and all that shit – when these girls would introduce me to random girls in the bar or at the pool party or wherever we were, like it was so easy. Like I was like, “This is so fucking easy now,” because I don’t have to like turn these girls and make them trust me, like do all this shit. It was just like I just get introduced, flirt with them a little bit, and then at the end of the night pick the girl I want. So that has been like the biggest evolution in my end, dude. Is that all clear?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, that's great. And one of the words you brought up a few times was fun, and like I think some guys are doing this like it's got to the point where they're not really having fun anymore or they're not having fun because it's just competition against themselves, against their ego and stuff, and they kind of forget what they got into this for, which is to have fun in the first place, right? And if you're not having fun, then what are you doing it for? So you bringing that up all the time, like obviously if you're going out and you're having fun, then that’s going to be a great part, a great addition to your life just in that, and as you say, the other things that you want come with it anyway.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly. And one of the things that I teach my guys all the time is this idea that, you know, I don’t like to talk too much about state and like getting into state…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Then again it becomes like a competition with yourself, like you have to get into state, like they're not okay right now. It creates all this kind of self-defeating thoughts that don’t help anybody. But like an invalidated state, in a state where you're trying to prove something, you're putting yourself in like a low-status state all the time. That's not going to attract anybody.

But if I'm going out, and I'm always social because I have the social circle and I'm always just having a good time and I'm always playful, I don’t want anything and I'm laid back and I'm doing all these things, then very, very quickly that’s going to be my default setting all the time. Fun isn't something you have to try for anymore. It's just something that you are.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, and I'm sure you're having, like you said, you're having a much better quality of life and you're having a lot more fun with it. How many women have you slept with in your lifetime so far?

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] You know, I stopped counting after 100. I like shudder to say that because there is a girl I'm seeing right now that’s been pretty consistent and if she listens to this she'll get mad at me. But yeah, you know, I stopped counting at over 100 and it was more like I just…the validation of like numbers and then stuff like that, it kind of becomes… it's meaningless after a while. Like truthfully, at this point, I would probably take away a lot of those girls if I can just pick out the ones where I had the best interaction with or the sex was the best. Instead of having sex with 300 girls or some shit like that, like have sex with 30 girls but make those 30 girls like way more intense and the sex way better and everything like that.

[Angel Donovan]: That’s a great point.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: You focus on the experience rather than the number or anything.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly, man. But you know, if you want to talk numbers, the one thing that I can tell you is when I first started like 20, 21, 22, basically I would go out every night and I was like the make-out king. Like that was like my thing for a while, getting make-outs.

[Angel Donovan]: Uh-huh. [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: And that was the barrier actually and it kind of became a barrier for myself where I was like I would rather make out with eight girls in a night than take any home. Like that was something I had to kind of fix on myself.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: My friends actually created something called the 15-minute rule for me back in college, and it was based on I was going out and they would just watch me with every single girl, but it was basically I didn't talk to a girl for more than 15 minutes without at least making out with her once.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: And that was pretty crazy when they kind of like… I mean, obviously my ego was like, “Fuck yeah, it's awesome!” But in general I think to myself now, I'm like, “Damn, that was pretty crazy.” Because basically what would happen is my style was very polarizing, I don’t like to bullshit around, I got to get to the point and lead it where I want to lead it, so either… You know, it usually worked most of the time, but if a girl wasn’t feeling it I didn't have to wait 15 minutes to find out. You know, you find out very quickly which ones you're going to be making out with eight minutes from now and which ones hate themselves and don’t want a shot with Jason Capital. [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Well, it's great that you bring that up because what we're going to talk about today is basically taking it to a sexual level and making out with girls or taking further. We were reading some of your stuff, we just reviewed some of your stuff that focused on that, so I thought it was a great topic to focus the interview today on.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Basically it seems like pretty much since you started you're being pretty sexual yourself because you've been making out a lot and you've… Did you have the barrier kind of yourself where you weren't able to do that or when you first got into this were you kind of able to deal with that? Because a lot of people, a lot of guys, it really seems to be something that they get stuck on, that they’ll get over their approach anxiety, they’ll start talking to women, but then they just can't lift it from there. They want to pull the trigger whatever you want to say, but they just won't move it on from there. Where did you kind of come from?

[Jason Capital]: I think that that barrier, that exists in a lot of guys, and it has to do with them not being fully comfortable with themselves. What I've always found and what my top students have always found is that when we get to a point where… when they got to a point where they finally like fully accepted themselves, they got comfortable with themselves and were able to say, “Yo, this is me. Love me, hate me, I don't care – I'm going to have some fun,” like when they finally were able to get to that point and really like feel that way, there was no like magic trick to like get over the pulling the trigger as you said or getting physical with the girl.

Because once you're comfortable with yourself, touch is natural. Like people who are just very comfortable with each other and very comfortable with themselves and they have a vibe between them, they're just going to be touching naturally. Touch is something that we naturally do, that we're supposed to naturally do all the time. A human being just likes touching and we like being touched.

So to the guys who don’t have that yet, I would say don’t look outward, look inward and see what it is. Like why are you still not at the point where you're comfortable enough with yourself to touch someone? Does that make sense?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it does, and like another question you could ask them is—well, like I've lived a bit in Latin America, Spain, and places where people are a lot warmer, right? So they’ll be touching you naturally. Just guys and girls will touch you a lot more than, say, in the States or definitely in Asia, for example, where they touch you a lot less and they're kind of averse to that kind of thing. So I think different guys have different environments where they grow up, but mostly in the US they're not as used to being like really warm like a Latino may be. But just with your guy friends, there are different levels I think that guys have grown up with, right? Some guys, they're a bit more touchy with their friends, like pushing them around and stuff like that. And maybe that’s a way of thinking like taking a first step. What kind of first steps would you suggest guys start thinking about like just to become more, as you say, comfortable with this? Like thinking of their relationships they have with whoever it is today, what kind of things should they think about being comfortable with?

[Jason Capital]: Okay, so two things come to mind. One of them is, I don't know if you can post a link maybe wherever this podcast will be heard, but there is an article on the… it was at a website that’s called the artofmanliness.com or something like that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: But they posted an article a couple of months ago where it was basically about how guys and like guy friends used to touch each other a lot more about a hundred years ago. And there were like 60 pictures of like guys in the Army and guys, friends at work, at the bar in like the early 1900s. But these guys would like hold hands, sit on each other’s lap, like arms around each other, hugging each other, and it wasn’t gay. It wasn’t a big deal. It was just normal. Like girls, they like to hug each other and hold hands and random stuff like that when they're hanging out, and guys back then, they did that. Like I, to this day for whatever reason, whether it's me internally, whether it's social programming, like I'm not comfortable holding hands with a guy…

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: …but it just goes to show like the environment obviously plays a huge role, like you were saying. So one, I think just kind of getting in your head that like guys not touching each other or touch being a weird thing or whatever it is is not like a normal thing. That's something that culture has kind of like brought up in the last couple of decades, but like for hundreds of thousands of years touch was a very natural normal response.

So that would be number one. Number two, generally speaking, like you have to get in your head that you're now like the touchy guy. And not like in a bad way, not in a creepy way, but you're just the guy who has no problem just like touching people. So literally I would just say just start practicing touching everyone you know. Like everyone you talk to, touch them. Like hit them on the shoulder, give them a high five, shake their hand, push them away, like just get used to playfully touching people.

And that's the biggest key. I kind of like pause to give this advice over podcast because I can't see these people live, but a lot of times, you know, I've told guys this and shown with a video or something, to just start like touching people more often or whatever, and they’ll do it and they’ll come back and like, “I got a creepy response” or “Someone said I was being weird” or like “I freaked people out,” and it's because like you don’t want to do a creepy touch. Like touch becomes creepy when you leave it there.

So if you're talking to a girl and you guys are actually vibing and connecting—you're alone—and you like put your hand on her knee, it can be good and it can turn her on if you hold it there for maybe one, two, three seconds and then you take it off. If you leave it there for 10 seconds, that touch just went from a turn-on to creepy. So when you're touching people and you're practicing being touchy, you're becoming like the guy, like, “I'm just a playful, touchy guy,” take away the touch before it reaches that point of, “Now this is getting weird.”

So one of my favorite things I used to do when I was younger, when I was practicing, this was I would practice hugging every girl. Like have you ever met like a girl who’s like when you first meet her the very first time she like goes for a hug, she's like, “I'm just the hugging type, like I'm that kind of person?”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Have you had that?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, well, actually, you know, I've lived in a variety of countries where basically it's really normal. So I grew up in France and Spain and places like that, so if you're not kissing and hugging people you're weird. [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Okay, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So for me it wasn’t as much of an issue.

[Jason Capital]: That's perfect. So like in Los Angeles for the most part that's not like a normal thing, but there is like a subculture of… like a spiritual culture of hippies and yoga, stuff like that here. So you meet these girls sometimes and the very first thing they'll do is they’ll give you like a five-second hug. That's just what they do.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: But when they do it they’ll kind of laugh and say like, “I'm just the hugging type. I like to hug people.” They give you a big hug and then walk away. You know, they’ll end the hug. So one thing you can do is with every girl you meet from now on, and even every guy, I don’t really care, like be the hugging type for two weeks just to like get comfortable hugging people. And you can say like, “I'm the hugging type.”

So one thing I would do when I did that for a little bit and then what I kind of picked up on was, you know, I’ll do this with girls, “I'm the hugging type,” and then after a couple of seconds I’ll look at them and hug them and I’ll say, “Okay, that's enough. Get off me,” and then you throw them away.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: So it's like you touch them but you're always taking it away first. Always be the one to take the touch away first. So something like that is a great way when you first meet a girl. You hug her and you say, “Alright, that’s enough. Get off me.” Then you throw her away, and it like instantly sparks that attraction, that tension, and now you guys have a different vibe going. You have a sexual communication vibe going instead there.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right, it opens up all that communication. A few things you said there, the Art of Manliness article, yeah, anything we talk about on the show, it'll be in the show notes, guys, afterwards. So don’t worry about that. They’ll be there for you.

And like you were talking about guys holding hands. If you haven't been to China, it's kind of weird to go there the first time because you'll see guys walking around holding hands, fathers and sons and brothers, and it's 100% normal. But the first time you get there you're like, “Hey, what’s going on? Are they gay?” And no, it's just natural. So like to your point, you know, I think things have changed over time. China was a bit more stuck, let's say, in the past than other places, so I think that’s kind of reflective of that.

A point you didn't bring up which I think is interesting is like you were talking about the creepy vibe…

[Jason Capital]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: …is like when you're looking at what you're doing or you're thinking about it consciously. Have you noticed that?

[Jason Capital]: Can you say that one more time? What do you mean exactly?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, sure. So when a guy goes to touch, he's thinking about, “I should be more touchy and I should be more like physical with people just in general,” but what he does is when he does it he looks at what he's doing. So, for example, he puts his hand on the girl’s knees, the example you gave, and he's looking at the hand, right?

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: And then it gives off that creepy vibe straight away because it looks more like some kind of conscious action.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly. Yeah, I mean, if any guy here is actually looking at the touch that they are providing, then you need to stop that immediately.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: You know, like cut that off immediately. Don’t look at the touch. Be looking at her in the eyes when you are touching her and nowhere else in that situation. Because if you were looking at where you're touching with your hands, yeah, that's just like, I'm imagining like a serial killer…

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Or he like always strokes her hair and he's looking at it, like keep the eye contact going – touch for a second, take it away.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, if you think about it, you know, people never look at what they're…when they're touching each other they're not looking at that. So that’s why that turns out weird.

[Jason Capital]: Right. Part of what makes it weird is, and I mentioned this in the beginning, is when she feels that you want something from her or that you're doing something because you want, you're coming from a place of want. That makes it creepy. Okay, you need to come from a place of have or a place of fullness or abundance, whatever you want to call it.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: So if you're looking at where you're touching, it communicates to her on some conscious level that you're doing it because you want something. But if you are comfortable and happy and you don’t need anything from anyone and you just want to share these good positive vibes and emotions with everybody, you'll touch them just to share that for a second and then you're boom, like take it away, you're already on to the next thing sharing those good positive vibes with someone or with the world.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right, right. Well, because the whole thing of touching is that you're not thinking about it when you're doing it. People just do it naturally, right? So if you're actually looking at it, it's like, “Okay, that's kind of weird,” because you must be thinking about it if you're looking at what you're doing.

[Jason Capital]: Right. We touch… like if you're in a conversation with someone and you guys are like laughing about something, like you might slap each other on the back when you're laughing and we don't think about why we're doing it, we do it because we're feeling great and we almost have this overwhelm of positivity and happiness coming through us and we want to share it with the person.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Like we want to touch them to share it, and then we take it away. There was no intent to get something back from it. It's purely from a place of giving and wanting nothing in return, which is incredibly attractive.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, so we're talking a lot about physical touch here. Is this the main thing that makes things sexual or is this the main barrier?

[Jason Capital]: Like physical touch?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. Is that the big thing?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, you know, it varies from guy to guy. I will say that if you talk to a girl for more than like 10, 15, 20 minutes and you guys haven't touched yet…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: …you're fucked, okay?

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: You're totally fucked. Because you can be saying all these metaphors and everything can be spewing out of your mouth like a rainbow of game and she's feeling great, but that’s just one level and that's just a very small level of the communication between you and her. If that’s going on but on a subconscious level there's no like touch going on, there's no framing of this as man to woman, of this is sexual, then the words are great but it doesn’t mean shit to her because, you know, like I said, the words to her are like 10% of it, of like setting the frame here of what’s important, but like 90% of it or whatever—I'm just pouring out arbitrary numbers here, but a much bigger part of it—is what’s going on on a subconscious level. And if there's no touch between you guys, then it's not sexual, it's just verbal.

Basically, if you're spinning great game but you're not touching her, it literally looks like to her you're just saying words to impress yourself. Like you're impressing yourself with how good you are with your handle of the English language but you're not actually interested in her. You're just kind of like running a monologue on yourself to make yourself happy but you're not actually interested in her.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So have you got any like tips on things, like easy things for guys to kind of introduce this physical touch, easier ways to do it?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, well, number one, touch right away.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Like don’t wait for a moment to touch. Like set tone immediately that you guys are just going to be touching each other. That’s just how it's going to be. That's just how the relation is going to be. So when you first meet her, hug her, right? And then throw it away.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent.

[Jason Capital]: And then, you know, a couple of seconds later you find out that she's from Arkansas and you say, “God, I love girls from the South.” Boom, fist. Give her a fist bump. And then, you know, you give a fist bump, and now all of a sudden you guys, like this has been set that you guys are going to touch each other. So maybe she might touch you later like because you've already initiated touch a couple of times. So that's number one, is like set the tone early that you guys are just going to be touching each other.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, okay. Just one thing that you said, like immediately hug her. But if you don't know her, is that something that you can do?

[Jason Capital]: Well, that’s what I was saying before. For a couple of weeks when you're practicing, literally say like… you know, if it's a cold approach, don’t do that. I'm speaking more of like socially you get introduced to someone.

[Angel Donovan]: Great.

[Jason Capital]: Like I said, like what I gained and what I'm teaching now is it's kind of moved away from cold approach simply because it's getting everybody better results.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: But you meet someone through a friend, you get an introduction, like hug them for a second. Say, “Hey, you know, I'm just the hugging type. Like this is what I do.” Then you hug her and then you say, “Alright, that’s enough. Get off me.” You throw them away, and then you look away or whatever, just kind of set that little vibe between you guys.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: But even if you're not comfortable hugging, like when you give her a handshake, like one of the things I used to do was just I always say never give a girl a normal handshake. So a typical like business handshake is you have to shake hands, you look each other in the eye up, and down for a few seconds, and then you let go. So never ever do that because she's basically been conditioned from a young age that people she shakes hands with like that are not people that she has sex with.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: People she shakes hands with like that are people that she does business with, that her parents know, you know, friends, stuff like that. So a lot of times I just take a girl’s hand and I would shake it like two feet up and down in the air, like back and forth instead of like a small handshake. Just something weird like that, it's just kind of quirky, smiling, but that immediately sets this tone that like, “Things are going to be different between us. We're going to be playful with each other.”

Like a lot of guys are like, “How do I go from this gap of like being polite with girl to like maybe going into banter and tension and attraction and stuff like that?” Well, you do it by… you know, leave yourself the hole the gap to do it from the beginning. So the minute I meet a girl, I'm shaking her hand all crazy and being playful, then I can, you know, that tone has been set. Not only has the touch been set but the playfulness between us has already been set too, so we can go into that kind of naturally anytime we want now.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, that's an important part of the physical interaction, right? The playfulness, the playfulness vibe to it.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. The thing is, any touch, it can't be serious. It can't be heavy. Like really, in any type of seduction, you want to keep everything… everything should be light and playful and funny. Anytime you bring seriousness into it, you're kind of weighing it down and it kind of becomes… you know, no one likes heavy things. No one likes when we have the serious shit most time. Like we like the light stuff. We like the fun stuff. We like the adventure, the excitement, the unpredictability. So keep it light, and that obviously includes your touching.

That’s why I said like one of the best things you can do is, you know, when you touch, is to always take the touch away first. Before she can pull away first or anything like that, you can take it away first because that, obviously, that's like it gives her a taste of it and then it leaves her wanting more, kind of like the old David DeAngelo principle of two steps forward, one step back…

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Jason Capital]: …which kind of sparks some tension there, puts like some wants in her, but also you can actually make a whole playful game out of it. So like I said, the hug thing is one, like you hug her and then you throw her away before she can end the hug first.

Or maybe she says something coy, you're like, “That’s fucking awesome. High five!” and then she goes to give you a high five and you take away your hand and she misses. It's like little games and you're 8 years old and she goes to give you a high five and you take away your hand and you're like, “Dude, what’s wrong with your coordination? Just give me a high five. My hand is right here. Now get it.” And then you do it again, and you keep playing with her and it's just playful.

But like if I do that to a girl like the high five thing and I keep taking my hand away and she starts laughing and giggling and getting frustrated, I can literally just after a while like, “Okay, fine, come here,” and then boom, I give her another hug. It's like joking, like we're still cool, I'm just playing with you, and then you take it away first again. You keep the touch playful. You keep it playful. It's not a big deal. And if you can remember, always remember to take it away first.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, excellent. So on a cold approach, what would you do differently if you wanted to initiate contact pretty quickly?

[Jason Capital]: You know, one thing, obviously you can do the handshake thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Like you can just say like, you know…

[Angel Donovan]: Just stick your hand out and…

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, yeah, just shake her hand a little bit. And then don’t give her a normal handshake. Like make it a little weird. Like I could even take a girl’s hand and be like, “Nice to meet you,” and then I'm taking her hand just kind of jokingly smiling, like instead of going up and down I can kind of like turn the hands sideways for a second and then take… and then look at it and be like, “Sorry, I've been terrible at handshakes ever since the accident when I was a little kid.”

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] Just something like that, it's hilarious, but it’s like it instantly sends that playful vibe between us. We have that playful touch in between us and it's just here. It's like it sets that tone right from the beginning.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. So are there also verbal things? Because I think you're known as a bit of a kind of sexually direct guy. That’s kind of your style and it goes back to what you were saying earlier that sounds kind of you try to make things very straightforward instead of complicated like some of the indirect game does. So it terms of verbally, what things would you be doing that let's say like raises the sexual bar more quickly?

[Jason Capital]: You know, early on, actually one of the best things you can do verbally is, okay, especially if it's been kind of playful but it hasn’t been sexual, is you just say something like… You know, one of the things I always used to do was just like ask her what she does for a living, which is like obviously it's a question you're not really supposed to ask, right? Not that it really matters. And you get her talking about her job and you're just like kind of nodding, say it's cool, then you pause for a second, and let's say she said she was a hairdresser, you're like okay.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: “It's weird, I can never date a hairdresser.” You just say something like that. And what it does is, one, it's like a verbal disqualifier. It kind of pushes her away a little bit. But it also communicates that you were considering her as a potential girl in your life before that. So it's like you guys are having fun, she tells you “hairdresser.” You're like, “It's awesome. It's just too bad I can never date a hairdresser.” And it's like all of a sudden you've set this frame of you were considering her but now she's not good enough for you and now she has to work for you to kind of like work it back. So that’s something you can do really early.

And then once you kind of have a vibe and like you can clearly tell you're both attracted to each other and you're like, “How do I go from this to the sexual kind of like vibe?”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: And one of my favorite things to do is I call it “blaming it on her.” So when you guys have that vibe going and it's playful and it's attracting and you guys are connecting and you get like all this deep eye contact, stare deep into each other’s souls and imagine the future kids you may or may not have, like when you're there, one of the best things you can do is just look at her and just be like, “Seriously, like why are you doing this to me?” My favorite question is that, “Why are you doing this to me?”

And she'll be like, “What do you mean?” And you're like, “Seriously, like why are you doing this to me? Like I'm sitting here trying to have a good time tonight, I'm trying to relax, and you seriously have to be her looking all cute and sexy and charming and be this fucking cool and making me want to kiss you right now. Like seriously, you need to stop it.” And you say something like that, the sexual tension just skyrockets. And I hope for the listeners it's not very hard to see how 10 or 15 seconds from there you go from saying that to making out with her or the first kiss.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So I think guys really struggle with making the connection. Even if they start doing this push and pull kind of stuff, then they still struggle to like that one moment when you're doing the kiss, is there anything you specifically advise on like maybe there's a signal you wait for or there's something you would do to move to the kiss? Is there anything like that that you tell guys to do?

[Jason Capital]: One is, you know, the Hollywood moment. Like that wasn’t created by Hollywood. Like people have been French kissing like that for a long time. So if you're like really connecting with a girl, you guys are like, you know, the vibe is there, it's playful, there has been some touching back and forth playfully going on, and there's a moment where you guys are kind of both laughing and you're like, “[Laughs],” and then you both… the laughing kind of stops and the eye contact just holds…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: You have to hold it there for just a second as the tension kind of builds, and you let it build for a second because obviously the tension creates the desire for her to want to kiss you. So you're just laughing and then you go for the kiss – like you can't do that. You need to, one, spark the tension first, and then you kiss her. Because if you're just both laughing, there's no tension there, and you go for the kiss – she's like… it's weird for her.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: In her mind, she only wants to kiss guys in the moment. Like she can be totally attracted to you, but if there's no tension in that moment it's going to be off for her. It's basically like you saying you don’t understand sexual communication. So what you want to do is you want to spark the tension and make sure the tension is there first before you kiss her.

So if you're both laughing and you're both… the laughter kind of dies down and it becomes silent, like you know, it's even like me and you right now and we just pause for a second, that gives space for the tension to actually build. Like you can even feel it right now as we were just doing this here…

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] I'm going to kiss you now. [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Like you pause for a second and you hold that eye contact and you don’t budge, you're just right there – that allows the tension to kind of skyrocket quickly, like a matter of one to two seconds, three seconds maybe. And then once that tension is there she’s either like, “I need to run away from this guy because this is scary,” like tension’s scary for girls…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: …or you need to slice through that tension by slowly going in for the kiss. So that’s like the number one thing – make sure that you create a new spark and you amp up that tension first before you go in for that first kiss.

[Angel Donovan]: That’s a really excellent point and I haven't heard that as well explained. It's really this pause. And it's kind of like slowing things down as well, because if you're laughing and you're messing around and suddenly you go for a kiss, like maybe her mouth is in the wrong place and it becomes awkward or maybe she's half laughing and you're kissing her in the middle. There's also that potential for like kind of creating some kind of awkward moment when she's…

[Jason Capital]: Right.

[Angel Donovan]: …totally surprised by it. But also when you set this like, you know, you slow it down a bit, you build the tension, you're also giving her time to realize what’s going to happen, right?

[Jason Capital]: Exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: So you're going to miss out running into that awkwardness.

[Jason Capital]: And if you're the guy who comes in and you're like laughing and you're going for that awkward kiss like mid-laugh or mid-chuckle or something like that…

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: …like not only is that communicating you're not experienced, you don’t understand sexual communication, but it also basically communicates to her that you are a man who cannot handle the tension. Like I said, girls, like they’ll get nervous by tension, they’ll be afraid of it sometimes, which is fine, which is normal. That’s what feminine energy is. But she wants a man who can handle the fucking tension, right? And this is a man that she's going to give herself to that she needs to know on a subconscious level, “This is a badass motherfucker.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: This is a guy who can handle the tension. This is a guy who can lead her through the world, that can make sure she's safe, she can feel safe around. And if you literally can't even handle just a little bit of tension with a girl, like how the fuck are you going to be the guy who gives her the best sex in her life or how the fuck are you going to be the guy who can lead her through the world safely? You know what I mean?

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: So like literally you need to show her in that moment enough that while she's the one who's getting nervous and fidgety in those two to three seconds of tension that you can be a fucking man grounded right there and holding it and not fidgety, holding that tension, basking in that tension, like letting it flow through your body and handle it, and then slowly going for the kiss. If you're a man who can do that, that tells her everything she needs to know about how much of a badass you are.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. This is awesome advice, guys, so like maybe really listen to this a few times because it's great stuff. And if you think about it, I'm sure you can get it. Especially if you think about movies, like you were just saying, like you can often see that moment in the movies. So there are many models kind of like guys can look around and see, “Oh yeah, I've seen that before.”

[Jason Capital]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So that makes it easy. Like I'm thinking now like some guys might feel like they're in a disaster recovery situation. Like I think this is one of the big things, is like they're like, “Maybe I'll go for it and it doesn’t go wrong for whatever reason, maybe I tried to do this tension thing and then I went for it but she just kind of turns her head or something.” Can you give some tips on like basically making guys feel more comfortable about that or like recovering from that situation and some of the ideas of why that might have happened?

[Jason Capital]: You know, I don’t want them to get the idea that I'm like a super master pimp who has never failed with a girl.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: I have certainly gone in for kisses with girls and not gotten it back.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: Like I've certainly been rejected on a kiss. The key thing you have to remember is, is it either, A, did she turn away because she actually doesn’t want to kiss you? In which case it had nothing to do with that moment of kiss, it had to do with something that happened, before whether there was no attraction between you guys, there was no vibe, she's not comfortable with you, doesn’t really like you. That’s one thing. If you get a cold turn-away and she's like shocked that you would even try to kiss her, then you need to reassess what you're doing…

[Angel Donovan]: Hmm.

[Jason Capital]: However, if I go in for a kiss and I get like a giggly turn-away, that's something totally different. And that is something that I think some guys actually interpret as rejection and that’s not rejection at all. That’s literally her saying like, “I want to kiss you too, just not yet,” just basically all she's saying. So in that moment, and this is something I kind of mastered over time, but if I go in for a kiss with a girl and she kind of giggly like turns away and laughs, I won't like quickly jump back, I won't get fidgety, I won't get like sad – I’ll literally hold it there for a second and just kind of pause, and then I’ll slowly kind of smirk and like lean back a little bit and I’ll say something like, “Good, I'm really glad you just did that.” You know, you kind of just take it away.

[Angel Donovan]: Hmm.

[Jason Capital]: You're basically stealing the frame again, and she'll be like, “What? Like why? Why are you glad I turned around?” I'm like, “Well, I'm really sensitive. I think you should take it slow. Like I understand you're the kind of girl who’s probably not that experienced, so like it's good. We're going to take this slow,” you know? And you kind of like verbally jab her, and all you're doing is basically pushing her buttons so that five seconds later she's going to kiss you.

[Angel Donovan]: I mean, I think you gave a really clear distinction there, but basically you said it's bad if her body language starts moving away, if she turns away, then you're like, “Oh.” There's probably something there you need to look at like something went wrong. But otherwise, pretty much in any other situation, if she stays there, if she stays facing you and she's not looking at you like she's angry or anything like that, then as you say it's a good situation, it's just she's not ready.

[Jason Capital]: It's a great situation, yeah. I mean, a lot of times guys, especially like guys who are really good with women, they have to operate totally on blind assumption. Like they have to operate on just a full belief for no reason why that this girl just wants them, and they operate on that blind assumption for the duration of the interaction or whatever it is. But if you get that, like that is positive feedback right there that she is into you.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: She wants to kiss you. Like you have your confirmation right there.

One other thing, too, that I do want to add is that if that does happen, you're going for the kiss and you get like the giggly turn-away and you're like, “She's like, ‘Slowly, like not yet,’” or whatever it is - like do not make a fatal mistake of making that a big deal, okay?

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: So if you make that a big deal, then she will not want to kiss you ever, okay? In that situation do something, like I said, playfully like laugh it off, like relax about it. I love what I said, like I really think you should just say that, like, “I'm really glad that just happened. Like we don’t want to be kissing yet because we're clearly not attracted to each other, because clearly things moved too fast, clearly you've become addicted to me,” and like that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Play that off, like keep it cool, and then instantly start talking about something else.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. Yeah, that's definitely a key point. And like I think easier maybe for some guys, like you were talking about proactively handling it, yeah, were some of the things you were saying before, but if for whatever reason, because they're kind of shocked or whatever, they're a bit nervous because they just feel like they kind of put their heart out there or whatever and then they try to escalate and they got pushed back, talk about something else and you smile, it's going to be fine as well.

[Jason Capital]: Exactly. And don’t do it nervously either because in that moment she's not really going to be listening to what you say, she's going to looking at how you react to her not kissing you.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: Are you cool? Are you chill? Are you still calm? Are you still relaxed? Or are you like nervously laughing because some guy in a podcast told you to play it off? Like she's going to be looking for that, so make sure that you continue to stay relaxed, you're so chill about it. You lean back, you're still having a good time. You know you're going to be kissing her later anyway, so what’s the rush?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: That’s really got to be your mindset there.

[Angel Donovan]: So do you build a sense for when is the right time over time? When you haven't tried to kiss a lot of girls, then it might be a lot harder to see when it should be… Would you say that as you kiss more girls in different situations you build a rough sense for it or does it as well as kind of stay, you know, “Oh, like I just have to try this and see…?”

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] No. No, no. It's something that becomes very internalized very quickly.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Especially if you are a present individual that when those moments happen it might only take two or three girls before you get a full sense of, generally speaking, when is the right time to kiss the girl? If you're getting all this experience but you're not present during it, like you're slow in your head all the time, then it's going to be a lot harder for you to internalize what these things feel like, because you should have to be thinking about this stuff all the time. This should be something you think about a little bit beginning as you're kind of in the conscious incompetence stage, I think is the term that they use.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: But you'll eventually, like you get conscious about it and you baby-step it and you got to get the hang of it, you get the “steel” for it…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: …and then eventually it's just supposed to be something that you feel out. That’s why like these interviews are always good for me because they make me go back and kind of verbalize all the things that I already do, because now I don’t think about this shit anymore. This is just stuff that I do. It's kind of like it’s become very much ingrained in me. I know when I'm supposed to kiss a girl. I know when I'm supposed to go in for a kiss and hold it there, and then tease her with it, and then not even kiss her and take it away.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, yeah.

[Jason Capital]: That’s one thing you can do is like you really want to get a girl fucking going, is get to that moment where she knows you want to kiss her. You want to show her that you're like a man of power, like slowly lean in for that kiss but build that tension going for that kiss. Hold it there right before her lips, kind of look at her, and just kind of whisper like, “Not yet.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jason Capital]: And then you push her away, and then you go back to her, and like she literally from that point on can't think about anything else except for this one cocky motherfucker who made her want him so bad and then won't give it to her yet. She's like, “I have to fuck this guy now. Like literally, I have to fuck this guy.” And that's solely a function of a combination of you being a badass and her just not being able to handle all of that sexual tension like you can.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, and I agree with you that there's a definitely a feel for it. And as you say, you can build this feel for it quite quickly. Just a quick comment on like way back when I was like getting into this stuff, I had that feel for it but my problem was for a little while that I didn't act upon it. I think maybe a good thing to tell guys is like if you think it's the right time, you should go, right? Because you probably already have that sense but you're not ready, you're just not confident enough to act upon it yet. So if you feel like it's the right time, then it's probably the right time to go. What would you say about that?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, dude, I fully agree. The only distinction that guys need to have there, though, is are you telling yourself it's the right time or do you feel that it's the right time?

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: Because your gut instinct will be correct.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Your gut instinct will be correct, but sometimes we don’t want to trust our gut instinct. So maybe if you're beginning, you have some girl and you really like her, like you're new—and you know, a lot of new guys, they get attached to that one girl that they got a little bit of a positive response from and they're like they are really into her—and maybe like deep down in your gut if you were able to get totally alone and just listen to it, you would know, “You know what? Hey, like I'm not there yet. She's just likes me as a friend. Like she just likes me as a friend. Like I know it. In my head I want her to like me so bad, but if I was just going to be honest with myself I would know that she doesn’t really like me.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that kind of makes me think, like you know when guys are getting into this and they're going on a date with a girl that they like as you say and probably tell themselves, “I better kiss her tonight. I've got to kiss her tonight,” and so he's going to get screwed up, right? I think in those situations, if they kind of thought about it too much and they’ve kind of planned it, that’s where they can get into those kind of problems.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, I mean, totally. I mean, two things: Especially if you're going on a date with a girl, like number one, I mean we can even quote the movie Hitch here, but she already said yes, you know what I mean?

[Angel Donovan]: Totally.

[Jason Capital]: Like as long as she's not using you for like to pay for her dinner or something like that, like she already said yes to go out with you, so truthfully, at that point, you don’t really have to do much. You just continue being a badass and continue being patient because she already said, “Yes, I am interested.” Just don’t fuck it up.

That's kind of number one, is like stay cool. And number one kind of goes along with number two, but you don’t have to kiss her on the first date. It's not make or break on the first date.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: If you want to go against the grain—because that's how most guys think. Most guys are like, “Oh, I got the first date with her. I'm going to wow her, I'm going to dazzle her, and then when I walk her to her door tonight I'm going to kiss her and then walk away like all smooth.” Like that’s how most guys are thinking. They're thinking, “I got to get that kiss on the first date.”

But if you can be like the guy who is so self-assured that you go on that first date and you're flirting with her and you're teasing her and you're challenging her, and even you can be physically escalating and you're taking away, then you escalate a little more and then you take more away, and you leave her wanting more every single time, but by the end of the date, at the end of it you're just like, “Alright, I’ll see you later,” and you just like walk away. That can be just as powerful.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: A guy who has that kind of patience and that kind of self-assuredness, especially if it's like a really hot girl who’s used to every guy trying to grope her and get on her immediately, like that is something that can be extremely powerful, dude.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with you. A quick story here, because this is like something that I started doing a few years back and I actually kind of do by default these days. I don’t go for kisses quickly, I just kind of wait it out and I'm just having fun. But it all started like a few years back when there was a super-super-hot girl who was normally hotter than girlfriends I’d had before. So we went on a date and everything, it was a long day, it was a great day, and I didn't try to kiss her once. And at the end of the night I just kissed her on the forehead and said good night.

[Jason Capital]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: And in that moment she went, “Wow,” and then she went home and she thought about it for the rest of the night.

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: So I think that's really a great point you make, because like now there are quite a few dating gurus that say like you have to make sure you sleep with her the first night or you have to kiss her the first night, and I don’t think that’s true at all.

[Jason Capital]: I have not seen any firsthand experience or real-world experience that would make that true. I'm in full agreement with you right now, dude. Yeah, I mean, what you did there is fantastic. Like you're basically communicating to her like you're so abundant, you're so sexually confident, you know she wants you anyways that you can be patient. And it also communicates that you understand tension because you going in like that and then just kissing her on the forehead and calmly walking away, like that leaves her with almost this like ball of sexual tension inside of her that literally every moment you're not with her and every time she thinks about you is just going to grow and become more intense every single time.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jason Capital]: And so one of the things I started doing is I would do something like that on the first date, then the second date, as I would tell my friends, it would turn into a rape scene.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Because it was just like the tension was just so music that the date would be cut short and she's like, “We need to go back to your place now.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jason Capital]: And that’s solely a function of just that sexual tension just growing inside where, “Jesus, like I have to do something about this. I can't even think about anything else. I can't think clearly until you fuck me.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. I feel that it makes the relationship better afterwards, you know, if you've got this awesome kind of story at the beginning of the whole thing, you know, it wasn’t just a typical like hookup or something but it was this like something a bit extra, it was a bit different. It'd be more romantic in some ways, I don't know…

[Jason Capital]: Yeah, I fully agree, and I think that the reason that that kind of idea of like you've got to fuck her on the first date or you have to get her to make out like really quickly, like I think the reason that was so widespread is it wasn’t based on real-world results. That was just something based on like a competition, you know, as we were talking about in the beginning. And for me and for my clients, and I'm sure for you too, like I care far more about results than winning a dick contest in the Internet.

[Angel Donovan]: Totally, totally.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Competition. And as you said earlier, like it can contribute to negative mindsets and hold you back. It just can really damage you, this competition mindset. So, great.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, I think we've really covered this topic pretty well. One of the other little things I just wanted to—this is connected to sexual escalation I think from your point of view. I noticed you talk a little bit about NLP in one of your books.

[Jason Capital]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: Is that something that you use a bit or you think that’s useful?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. I think there's parts of it that are useful. I know that there are some teachers out there that teach like full NLP-type scripts to seduce girls.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: I don’t do anything like that for the most part, but there's definitely parts of NLP that can certainly be useful, yeah, for verbal communication and stuff like that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, well, that’s why I brought it out, because it seemed like the way you brought it up was a lot more practical than a lot of the other stuff. Like you say, like some of it can be pretty long-winded and, you know, it's been around for 15 years and it was one of the first things that came out of the seduction community. We think it's kind of unwieldy and can be really bad to execute… so it's not the best thing. But you seem to make it quite practical and useful. Could you describe like a couple of things you do with it?

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the basic principles of NLP is like talking about all five senses. You know, there might be like 40 senses, but all five senses that we really know about, like touch, taste, smell, eyes, audio or like hearing. But basically, like obviously you want to evoke all kinds of different emotions in a girl when you're seducing her. You want to take her on like an emotional rollercoaster, an emotional journey. And in conversation as you're describing things, as you're telling stories, like don’t just focus on what you saw – talk about what you were feeling, talk about what you heard, talk about what it smelled like. Like you can kind of evoke different emotions out of her by going through different senses.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: So don’t just focus on one sense, kind of talk about all. That’s one of the kind of basic principles of NLP. Another one is just like… it's called phonological ambiguity, but it's basically like…

[Angel Donovan]: Wow, that’s a word. [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] That’s two words actually.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: [Laughs] It's called phonological ambiguity, and what it means is that basically it's a word or it's a phrase or something like that that could mean two different things.

[Angel Donovan]: Uh-huh.

[Jason Capital]: So like the word “hole” is a good example of that. Like when you say “hole” it can mean H-O-L-E, it can mean W–H-O-L-E…

[Angel Donovan]: Uh-huh.

[Jason Capital]: …and it has multiple meanings. It's got an ambiguity to it. So that’s something you can use. Like this is kind of the premise of the NLP seduction stuff where it's like you make it sound like verbally that you're talking about one thing but you're actually communicating something else to her subconscious.

So if I say something like, to a girl, where we're talking sexual and I say something like, “Yeah, like I know that most girls in today’s world, they just want like a fucking man who will just kind of take control in the bedroom so they can just fully relax and just as a whole be filled up with the entire experience.” If I say something like that, there's an ambiguity to it because when I say “as a whole be filled up with the entire experience.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Right.

[Jason Capital]: Like it sounds like I'm talking about one thing but to her subconscious, at least as the technology would have you believe, she hears her hole being filled up. [Laughs] And that kind of stuff, like sometimes I do it because maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t – either way at the end of the night if I say stuff like that I’ll be chuckling to myself just because it's funny.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] Yeah. Well, I think there's a point too, you know. It's kind of a fun thing to do as well, especially when it's already getting a bit physical with the girl and stuff. So it's kind of those innuendos as well that she might giggle at as well.

[Jason Capital]: If you ask me like just good sexual innuendo, like James Bond style is far better than anything I just said, like any NLP stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: I think that stuff is much more powerful. I wouldn't put a lot of investment into the NLP in terms of like the actual content, but I think there are certain principles of NLP that you should be using in your communication.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: Like talking about different senses. Like opening different loops in stories – like if you're telling a longer story, stopping at certain points and getting check-ins from the person listening to make sure…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Just different things like that, using colorful language, that kind of stuff, I think that's valid not just for girls. I think it's valid for life. I think it's kind of stuff that every guy should learn as he becomes just a better communicator in general.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, excellent points there. I wanted to get your take on NLP.

[Jason Capital]: Cool.

[Angel Donovan]: Alright, so we're coming to a close now and I want to ask you this question that basically we push past everyone at the end, which is, if you're someone who’s starting from scratch, complete zero, right? So I haven't studied anything, I haven't really done anything, I don’t have a lot of experience and I'm a complete beginner at this kind of thing, what would be the top three recommendations you would give them to get good with women as fast as possible?

[Jason Capital]: Okay. Number one, I’d say get on my newsletter immediately.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: Like seriously, get on my newsletter as fast as you possibly can. That would be number one. You don’t have to buy any of my products. I'm not going to like push anything here.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: Just get on my newsletter every single day. It's like 1000 to 2000 words of just pure value and learning this kind of stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent.

[Jason Capital]: And it's brand new every single day. Get on that because not only is there advice in the newsletter and not only is it like are you learning a bunch of shit from what I'm saying, but what I try to do is I want to show you what a guy who attracts a lot of women sounds like, what he looks like, what things he says, jokes he makes – and that’s what I'm doing in the newsletter.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jason Capital]: So a mentor of mine actually taught me, like he said every day, “What you want to be doing is you want to spend at least three hours a day with someone who is five to 20 years ahead of you where you want to be.” So you want to find someone who five to 20 years from now is where you want to be and spend at least three hours a day with that person or a collection of people.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent advice.

[Jason Capital]: Yeah. So if you read the newsletter every day, you can read it twice. That might take you 20 or 30 minutes a day, so just that right there you're kind of hitting part of your three-hour quota of being around a guy who is a badass with women, who gets all the women that he wants for the most part. So that would be number one – get on the newsletter.

Number two is start flirting with every girl that you meet. A lot of guys when they first come into this, they’ll learn information and they’ll wait for like the one hot girl that really like kind of like sparks passion in them or inspires them, and you as a beginner do not have the privilege of being able to do that. I might be able to do that because I've been pushing this shit for five years to kind of turn it on whenever I need to. But if you're a beginner, you need to start practicing right now. Look at every girl you see in your world on your path all the time. Just look at them as practice for right now and just practice flirting with them. You don’t want anything from them, you don’t need feedback, you don’t need appreciation, you don’t need validation, you don’t need any of that – you're literally just working that muscle in your brain that flirts. That’s all you're doing.

So when you are checking out from the coffee shop, instead of just paying your money and not saying anything to the girl, start a little conversation with her. Make a joke about it. When she hands you the coffee, sip it and say, “This is pretty good, but whatever girl was here yesterday I just want you to know that she makes it a little bit better.” Like just start flirting with everyone, start challenging girls a little bit playfully, and just work on getting it going.

As I said in the beginning of this podcast, the state that you are in the most often becomes your default setting, so start consciously putting yourself in that flirting, playfully challenging state all the time so 30 to 60 days from now you don’t have to practice, you don’t have to turn it on. It's just who you've become. That might be the most powerful thing you can do to start really working on your game.

And number three, find a couple of friends who are already good with girls in your area and just start hanging out around them. Whether we like it or not, people that we are around we become. I think Brian Tracy says the five people that you're around the most is who you are or is who you're going to become.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jason Capital]: And you know, it's not limited to five. It's not like five is the magic number or anything. It's just like the people that you are around the most are going to subtly influence you whether you like it or not. So if you can start hanging around cool guys who are already good with women, you're going to pick this shit up so fast. So find a couple of guys. Like I don't care what you have to do to hang out about them. Fucking pay them if you have to.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jason Capital]: But hang around them because it is going to accelerate your results at a rate faster than anything you can imagine. So, I mean, number one, get on my newsletter. Number two, start flirting with every girl. Don’t want anything, just like do like the throw and go. It's like flirt with her for a second and then be on your way, and see another girl and flirt with her for a second and feel good about yourself and be on your way. You don’t want anything in return. You're just working on that flirting muscle. And then number three, find some friends who are badasses with women and hang around them as much as you can.

[Angel Donovan]: I love those points, and the last one I’d say is relevant for everything in your life. I mean, it's from Brian Tracy and it really does make the difference in anything you want to do in life, not just getting better with women. So, some great advice there. Well, thanks, dude. It's been great having you on the show.

[Jason Capital]: That was awesome, man. I had a good time.