Ep. #9 How to Meet Women During the Day with Jeremy Soul

[Jeremy Soul]: Hi, how you doing?

[Angel Donovan]: It’s great to see you here. Jeremy has just recently written and published an ebook about daytime dating, so meeting women during the day. So we’re going to talk about this. It’s his specialty, what he does at Love Systems. So, we’re really looking forward to talking a lot about how you meet women during the day.

[Jeremy Soul]: Cool.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So, first of all, how did you become specialized in meeting women during the day? A lot of guys talk about meeting women at night.

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So what is it? How did you get into this? Why is it a bit different for you and how does that all go?

[Jeremy Soul]: Sure. So I started this whole pickup dating thing about five years ago, and when I first started Mystery was very big and he came out with Mystery Method, his ebook at the time, and he laid out this whole sort of set of rules for going into nightclubs and meeting women there. And that well and good and I started doing that, but there was also this new thing at that time called day game where people would start to hit the streets and try to apply a similar methodology to meet women in daytime. So I gave it a try and I just really enjoyed it. I found it very exhilarating. I think it was literally a thrill that it gave me because it’s such a shit scary thing to do to go up to a woman in the middle of the street and try and hit someone up because you don’t have alcohol, typically you’re not doing it like with a buddy. I mean, you might have a buddy lurking in the background somewhere…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: …but you’re kind of on your own. It’s not socially expected.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: So you feel like a bit of an idiot going up to this woman and putting yourself out there. But as scary as it is, it also gives you a bit of a buzz, so I started doing it more. And it was interesting at the time there weren’t really that many guys who had done a lot and there wasn’t like a whole sort of day game system out there. The guys that were big at the time like Mystery and Style focused on bars…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: They were recommending, “Yeah, you can go in with the same kind of open routine in the nightclub and you just have to do it as they…” and all these kinds of things, and I tried this and I was like, “God, this stuff’s not working.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: I was like, “This is ridiculous.” You know, the success rate, “This is so low.” So then eventually I heard about this other method where you go up and you give the woman a compliment instead of coming up with some complicated routine. I tried that and I found that works really well. And over the next couple of years I started experimenting with lots of different ways of doing that, different conversation styles, and I just kind of hammered out all the kinks I had built up in my past system for doing that.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. So give us a bit of an idea, like what percentage of women have you met during the day versus in the evening in bars, which guys normally talk about?

[Jeremy Soul]: It’s been all mixed. I mean, if you’re talking about just women I’ve met or even women I’ve slept with…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: …it’s probably like 50% from the daytime, 30% from the nightclub, and 20% through friends…

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right, of course.

[Jeremy Soul]: But if you’re talking about women that I’ve really fallen in love with, women that have been the hottest girls, the highest-quality relationships, it’s probably more like 90% daytime.

[Angel Donovan]: Alright. So I’m guessing this is why you’ve become more of a specialist in this area and taken more of an interest in it.

[Jeremy Soul]: It’s a big part there, yeah, because of the results, the quality, but I think also a lot of it is a sort of personal style preference.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: I don’t really like talking over loud music.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: I don’t really like sort of just having this like dancer and this kind of we tease each other style of like conversation for…

[Angel Donovan]: Which is pretty common in bars.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, because everyone’s party mode and…

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So they’re really different kinds of states, so it’s not really the same as meeting someone in their daily life.

[Jeremy Soul]: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, you talk to a hot girl in a nightclub and she’s so like distracted as guys are hitting on her left, right and center, and it’s quite hard to get to her real personality…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …and to get a real side of…I mean, that said, there are ways around that, and some of what I do in a nightclub is go to like quiet parts or try and pick out the girls that look like they can have a conversation. And I go to a lot of lounge bars and stuff like that, and I prefer that. But in the daytime, I find you get to the point really quickly and you see the genuine side of that person.

[Angel Donovan]: Great. So I’m sure you know a lot of guys are thinking, wow, meeting girls during the day, well, what does that mean? Where are you meeting them? Are you walking up to them into the street or where are these girls and how do you meet them? Is it through your daily life or how’s it work?

[Jeremy Soul]: I mean it’s kind of anywhere and everywhere really, and how I think about day game is before it gets dark, really.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. [Laughs]

[Jeremy Soul]: And sometimes it can be on your way to work in the morning, it could be in your lunch break in the coffee shop, it could on the train on the way back home. That said, the sort of majority of the women I have met have been on the street and often it’s been when I was out looking to meet women, so I actually went out and hit the streets for a couple of hours and I said, you know, I want to meet some girls today.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: And that’s kind of how you practice and get good as well, spend time and dedicate it to her.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Okay, I just really want guys to kind of get this into their head, so give us an example of last time you met a woman in day game. Where were you? What were you doing and how’d it work out?

[Jeremy Soul]: Well, my position is a little unique because I teach this for a living.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, of course.

[Jeremy Soul]: I don’t spend half the time going out to find women because…

[Angel Donovan]: It’s become a job. [Laughs]

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, [laughs] exactly, and I find I actually meet a lot of women while I’m training guys.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah. Understandable.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. So the last woman I was with, you know, she’s pretty cool, we’re good friends now…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, that was when I was with a client and, I mean this girl was like she was gorgeous. So what I think is like, as I’m sure you know as well, the longer you do this, the rarer it is that you find a girl that really takes your breath away and inspires you to approach them.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: So it’s actually a lot…I don’t really do it as often these days because to find a girl I like is…it’s a lot more difficult.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: But…so I was talking on the street with this client and this like skinny, young blonde girl, quite casually dressed…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. So, we’re talking about a street in London.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. This is off the street.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Okay, so a very busy normal street just the same as any other big city?

[Jeremy Soul]: It was busy. I mean, it was Piccadilly Circus, so it’s like the busiest junction, one of these in Central London, and I caught her eye a little bit as she walked past and she kind of looked back. And there’s a look that you can give to a woman that says that I’m checking you out without being sleazy. It’s kind of like it’s more just taking them and holding eye contact a little bit longer than is comfortable…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: …but not kind of staring up and down…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: …because this up and down look, it’s really creepy.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. Yeah. I totally agree. That is very creepy and not to be done.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Well, the other thing I find, it has to be spontaneous as well because sometimes I see a woman coming from a long way away…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: …and if I stare her down she gets really uncomfortable and looks away, whereas if I pretend to be looking somewhere else and then I kind of glance in directions as if I just saw her and…

[Angel Donovan]: You notice her.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, then often she’ll look back…

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. And so, I mean that kind of establishes the first connection although you haven’t spoken or even done anything yet.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, yeah. And there are all these other factors as well like your body language and the clothes you have. I mean, body language is essential, this is like a huge part of attraction, so a lot of what we teach in workshops is getting guys to stand up straighter…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …and walk more slowly, move their hands more comfortably when they speak with a girl.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so you met this beautiful blonde girl.

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So you made eye contact, and then what happened?

[Jeremy Soul]: Then, I let her walk past me…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …and a couple of seconds later I doubled back and I ran up just alongside her…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: …and I touched her lightly in the arm to get her attention and I said, “Excuse me, I just saw you walking past,” and delivery too now is [laughs] part of…

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. It’s good.

[Jeremy Soul]: “Excuse me, I just saw you walking past and I had to come tell you that you look incredible. Just the way you were walking, I just thought you looked so attractive.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. And what is her reaction to this?

[Jeremy Soul]: She gave a fairly kind of flat emotional reaction, but…

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Is that common or…?

[Jeremy Soul]: Not necessarily. I mean, she’s used to a lot of attention and, well, she was working as a stripper, and she’s also very like standoffish lady…

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: But the important thing was she was standing there and engaging in a conversation which I had then started.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: So I was leading with conversation, I stopped the questions when I started talking about some of the topics that I knew about. So like one of the first things I picked up on was that she wasn’t from here.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: I heard an Australian accent, so then I was like, “Alright, so you’re traveling here, you’re working here,” and I was just trying to figure out which is the most productive route of conversation here. For example, if somebody is…

[Angel Donovan]: So it’s pretty straightforward so far. You’ve made a compliment.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, first of all, I’d like to go a little bit back because you said you saw her and then she walked past you, and then you actually turned around and basically followed her, right?

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: And I think that's something that would freak most guys out, like straightaway it’s like, “You followed her? Isn’t that like stalker behavior?” So could you just explain…why is that okay?

[Jeremy Soul]: Well, I mean, basically, you have to make contact somehow, right? I mean, there are two points here. Like whatever you do, you’re always taking risk. Like no matter how you approach a woman you’re going to try to do it in like a really safe way or whatever, but there's always a chance that she’ll reject you and not be interested.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: So you have to go through that, and I prefer to wait until they’ve gone past and then catch up and then do it because it seems more spontaneous.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: If they’re walking towards you and you see them and you just kind of grab them and stealth them, it’s almost as if you’re walking around the street on the lookout for her, right?

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: Which is quite socially…

[Angel Donovan]: Which sounds a bit unnatural…

[Jeremy Soul]: Exactly. If you tell her like…if a girl says, “So what have you been doing?” You say, “Well, I’m looking to women in the street like this.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: It’s a little bit weird.

[Angel Donovan]: So in a way it’s more natural like to see someone, make a bit of eye contact, and then they walk past and you’re like, “Hey, actually that was interesting. I’m going to go and…”

[Jeremy Soul]: Yes. Exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: “…talk to that one.” In a way that’s a natural process.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. And it’s got a bit of a romantic vibe to it as well that there’s a whole kind of shit like “I can’t just let you walk past without giving this a try” vibe to it.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. I mean, this is an interesting thing. Like I’ve met a lot of women during the day, so that’s why I’m enjoying this conversation as well, because Jeremy has got a lot of experience. Have you ever had a woman…now I just want to see the fears guys might have, “Well, what happens if she does this?” So, if you double back and talk to her, has she ever like kind of challenged you on that and said, “Did you just follow me or did I just see you and you just…?” Have you ever had some kind of challenge like that which…?

[Jeremy Soul]: I did once have a woman, I mean this was like I opened her, and as soon as I opened her she screamed and she started saying, “You can’t just go up to people and touch them on the arm like that. I could call the police.” She was literally screaming her ass off.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs] Wow. That is a bit…yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: And it did freak me up…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I can imagine.

[Jeremy Soul]: That’s the most extreme response I’ve ever had to a day game approach. And it sort of turned me off for a couple of minutes, and then…I mean, this is the thing, as you know from all you experiences with women that have been successful, if you’re going to have the awesome experiences and the really good ones, you’re going to have a ton of really bad ones as well.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, of course.

[Jeremy Soul]: And you’ve got to be able to weather that.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: And like a lot of guys get put off by extremes like that, but look, I mean, what’s funny actually is that, that was in New York and I got thrown off for a few minutes after that. When something happens you question yourself, you go through these sort of self-doubts, like immediately after she was screaming I was like, “Does she have a point? Should I stop…?

[Angel Donovan]: Right. It’s normal to question yourself when someone’s shouting at you and acting a bit crazy like that. You’re like, “Oh, what am I doing?”

[Jeremy Soul]: But then you kind of have to assess your experience and your results. So I looked back and I said, “You know what? I’ve fallen in love with women that are amazing...

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. And they’ve fallen in love with you.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, exactly. So, I was just like, “You know what, I’m going to keep doing this...”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. So, I mean, in that situation, how did that end?

[Jeremy Soul]: Well, I mean, she was backing away and…

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right, right, right. So you kind of just left her to it.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yes. [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: I think that’s a pretty good response given the conditions.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, I’d just like to give you like a similar one where it was okay and something similar happened. I had a girl who basically just said, “Wait a minute, I just saw you a minute ago and you were walking the other direction.”

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Which is exactly what I was doing.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: And I just kind of laughed and I said, “Yeah, but I saw you.” And then in the same kind of way that you do, I just said, “Well, yeah, I thought you were cool,” and I gave her some compliment and carried on talking, and she laughed and we carried on talking. So, I just wanted guys to understand that it doesn’t really matter what kind of reaction you get.

[Jeremy Soul]: Right. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Day game isn’t that scary.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: It sounds pretty unusual but…

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Certainly, I’m sure you’ve spoken to a lot of people and you’ve had one bad reaction like that.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So, how likely is it that you’re going to get one of that worst case scenario?

[Jeremy Soul]: The other thing is the more I did this, I started talking to girls like about whether it’s happened to them before. A lot of guys who know nothing about this whole pickup industry actually, like it does exist but they do do it like…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, girls are always telling me about like certain types of guys, like a lot of girls tell me about like an Italian guy in a train that starts a conversation with them, whatever.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: Or like an old guy having dinner at a restaurant that looks over and turns to you and starts talking and stuff like that.

[Angel Donovan]: It’s funny you should mention that, a lot of my girlfriends tell me how they’ve been approached, unfortunately usually the wrong way…

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: You know, what you’ve learned, so, which is more important to learn how to do it…

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: …a good way, right? Okay, so kind of going back to where we left off with the blonde girl, so you double back and you gave her the compliment, and how did that go from there?

[Jeremy Soul]: So yeah, she responded like reasonably well to the compliment. One of my whole philosophy is don’t look for green lights from women…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …but just keep moving forward and just check on the red lights.

[Angel Donovan]: So green light’s basically a positive response.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, like sometimes…and you know, some of the other like dating gurus will kind of like advise, “Well, listen to this, it’s a good sign when a girl does something like touch their hand and stuff.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jeremy Soul]: But I’ve had so many cases where girls give these negative signals and stuff, but if you lead them they’re still like, “Okay, I’ll come home with you,” or “I’ll let you go out on a date with me,” whatever.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, I guess, you know, you’re talking about day game here and it is a little bit of a different situation than it used to, I mean, you were talking about social expectations.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So, to get a positive reaction immediately I guess isn’t so obvious, like the girl will feel maybe a little bit, well, surprised.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So she’s kind of like waiting to see what happens.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, and still kind of working out like what you’re doing there and what she should…how she should be carrying herself, I guess, in a way.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: But the other thing is because generally daytime people are busy, on their way to do things, if she is still there 30 seconds later, there’s a reason for it.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: I like to make the comparison to charity, salespeople, you know, it’s people that are trying to sign you up…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: … it's like that stuff in the street. If you stop and talk to one of those guys, even if you say “I’m not interested” or “I don’t know about this,” there’s a part of you that’s willing to consider it, right?

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: Because if you’d absolutely made a decision you’re not giving any money to charity today, you’re just going to walk on past. When they’re, “Okay, how you doing?” You’re like, “Sorry mate, I’m busy.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: But if you stop and have a just a brief chat with them, then there’s scope there. Even if you’re there and say, “Oh, I don’t know about this I already signed up to this charity or whatever.”

[Angel Donovan]: So what you’re saying is as soon as she’s kind of stopped and paid attention to you, that kind of opens the door to a future potential, right? No matter what her mind says.

[Jeremy Soul]: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And I think honestly that’s one of the most challenging things about street game…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: …is just finding the women that would stop. And this is a big thing that I’ve looked into over the last few years and experimented with…

[Angel Donovan]: Yes.

[Jeremy Soul]: …because, you know, to the point where I felt like my approaches were really good. I felt like I was kind of like confident, demonstrating the right kind of values, and yet there was still a significant proportion of girl that would not stop, and I was analyzing my approach from several different angles, you know, can I do this better? And then I did the research and, statistically speaking, two-thirds of the world’s population is in a relationship already.

[Angel Donovan]: Yes.

[Jeremy Soul]: And I think in a nightclub you see that less because it’s more single people, but in the daytime it’s a lot more…

[Angel Donovan]: Of course, yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: So yeah, so you’ll get a lot of people just saying like, “Sorry, I’m busy,” or, “I have a boyfriend, but thank you.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: And that’s just something you have to deal with. It’s like any sales job. You’re just looking for potential customers.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, alright. So let’s talk a little bit about that. So if she has a boyfriend or some condition where she’s not going to be interested in your pretty direct approach…

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: …what kind of responses do you normally get and how do you deal with them?

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, I believe in something called the 80/20 rule.

[Angel Donovan]: Yes.

[Jeremy Soul]: You’re probably familiar with that. Just for the listeners, it’s a principle through economics and lots self-help stuff that says that 80% of your success generally comes from 20% of your efforts. So I find that most of these girls who say, “I have a boyfriend, I’m sorry, I’m not interested,” or whatever, a lot of times it’s a lot of work to try and make those go anywhere. It’s kind of a slow burn thing, like months, and it’s not even worth the hassle in most cases.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: Ideally, what you want is you stop a girl, you give her a compliment, and she fully stops and is like, “Thanks, that's really nice of you,” and gives you this window of opportunity to talk. Those girls very often go somewhere.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: But they are in the minority, like definitely not going to be most girls you go up to. I would say the majority of girls you go up to, and yeah, this depends on where like, for example, in New York, in London, I find it’s harder to get girls to stop. Probably 70% of women who stopped in London and New York, and this varies because you can target certain types of women and they might be more likely to stop, for example, a tourist, a girl who’s kind of walking slowly, looking around, you know, a girl that's sitting in a café reading a book, right? But there are so many people in these big cities that are busy and already have boyfriends. On the other hand, if you’re somewhere, like I was in Austin, Texas…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: Right, and I found like 70% of women stop and have a full-on chat with you, and after 10 minutes they turn around and, “Oh, sorry, I’m married, but it’s really nice to talk to you.” [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Jeremy Soul]: They’re just like so charming and they just want to talk.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jeremy Soul]: But yeah...

[Angel Donovan]: That’s crazy. Alright, so like what kind of situations could you meet women in? Like if you just kind of go through the list of places where during the day you’ve met women or you think it’s easier or more difficult to.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of this comes down to personal preference, like what you enjoy. I like walking.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: So I guess that’s one of the reasons why I’ve done a lot street approaches.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: The other thing I like about approaching women in the street is that it’s very anonymous.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: There’s no kind of social fallout if you mess up, so it’s a great kind of training ground.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: And it’s kind of…it’s almost limitless in a way in that if you’re in a busy street, especially in a big city like London or New York, then there’s just this constant chain of new women coming through. In smaller towns you probably have that less.

[Angel Donovan]: In terms of traffic, I was once at a crossing in Tokyo, in Shibuya. There is—I think you’ve been there before—huge traffic flow off to work, right?

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: And I always staying there waiting for some friends, and the number of beautiful girls that passed was just amazing because there were so many people walking past and I couldn’t help but talk to a few of them.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So I get this, in a way during the daytime at certain like periods, it’s just you’re going to see more beautiful girls than potentially in other places, I guess.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Yeah. So I find there’s always a tradeoff between the volume of women and that receptivity, openability, whatever you want to call that.

[Angel Donovan]: Interesting.

[Jeremy Soul]: And this goes back to my big city versus small town thing. You go to a small town, there’s less women so there’s less opportunities to approach, but the ones you do approach, much more likely to stop and chat with you.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: And to be honest with you, I don’t necessarily…I mean sometimes one is better than the other. For example, I was living in Stockholm for about a year and there were times when I was just meeting the same people, seeing the same faces every day and I got really bored of that. And when I’ve been to New York or London, I was really excited because there are so many women there and so much more diversity. On the other hand, after a couple of months of going at it in London, you get sick of how everyone has their shield up and everyone’s always so busy like that.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. And I see that sort of thing, I mean, because cities are busier and if you meet someone they’re probably going somewhere in a kind of busy frenzy I think for all those people who live in cities. And if you think about your own day, you’re really busy.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So if someone tries to stop you like a charity worker or someone, it’s kind of difficult for them, right?

[Jeremy Soul]: Well, I think the whole like “I’m busy” thing is really just a social cover for “I have a boyfriend.” I think the majority of the time when someone says “I’m busy…”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …it’s they have a boyfriend, and therefore they’re into meeting someone new. There’s a reasonable proportion of women who would just not consider meeting someone in that way, through a cold approach.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Fair enough.

[Jeremy Soul]: They only meet people through friends and work. And there's probably a couple that just say they’re busy just because you’re just not their type.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So it’s a little bit of a numbers game.

[Jeremy Soul]: I mean, that's true. Being successful in anything in life, right, you’ve got to plow through a lot of numbers to get success.

[Angel Donovan]: However, we’re saying it’s a bit of a numbers game, the opportunities you open yourself up to, right? There are some people who learn dating advice, pickup advice, and they’ll go to bars for a certain amount of time and they’ll meet women. Like you were saying earlier, there’s a certain segment of types of women that go there, whereas during the day it’s everyone and anyone.

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So in a way there's a greater opportunity to meet someone who might appeal to you depending on what type of woman, I guess.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, I think so. I think you get to who they are a lot faster, like there’s kind of a bullshit bar personality like most people put on when they go out at big night and, you know, girls do it too.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: So that’s definitely like one advantage of day game. I think one big disadvantage of it, one of the reasons why sometimes I do actually like going out to nightclubs, is because to take a woman home and seduce her, they need to get into a bit of an emotional state, and that’s harder to achieve a lot of times in daytime than it is in a nightclub. I mean, it’s alcohol, it’s the loud music, it’s the people around stimulating them, teasing them, stuff like that. So that’s one thing about nightclubs that's cool is that, yeah, you can meet someone in a nightclub and you can take them home an hour later or…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …something even quicker than that. Whereas in the daytime that’s far less common, and what I normally do in the daytime is try and meet up with them again at night, you know, go out for drinks and then I can create that emotional state for them.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So we were talking a bit about this later sort of thing, what happens after. So you’ve met your blonde girl—we’ll go back to the blonde girl again—and you’ve been talking to her for five minutes, so what kind of happens from there?

[Jeremy Soul]: So at that point I start like taking steps forward and interaction, but this is where you need to sort of research and plan how you end up hooking up with this girl, or kind of your plan to seduce her is going to depend on her situation, your situation. So, for example, let’s say she is a tourist and she’s in town for one day from another city and she’s staying the night, then you want to find out where she’s staying and if it's far from where you live, and try to come up with a plan. So you’ll say, “Well, how about we meet for a drink around here later tonight. It’s your last night. I’ll give you a good sendoff,” or something.

On the other hand, she might be in town for a few days or she might live there and she’s tied up with someone tonight, but you guys make plans to have a coffee on Sunday somewhere or something. Or it might be like she’s a party girl and the whole like one-on-one sort of dinner and drinks then doesn’t appeal, and you’re like, “Well, listen, there's this big party that's going to be great and you should come by,” and so you kind of tailor it to the situation.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah. So it sounds like you’re kind of learning a bit about the situation on who she is, and then you’re making the next step based on it.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, a little bit. I think it’s also about…okay, I mentioned this before, this personal preference thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: I think a big part of like attracting women into your life is actually having very strong preferences of your own and expressing them when you meet women and how you date them. So, for example, I party a bit but I’m not out like every night. I’m not going to nightclubs every Friday and Saturday. So I don’t want to put that on just to try and attract a girl into my life. I would rather have a one-on-one drink, so I shoot for that a lot more often.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: Occasionally, if I am going to a party that weekend, I might invite her, but because my preference is to do a one-on-one date, that's what I aim for.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, and so, I mean, I guess what you’re really saying is like you should kind of decide what you prefer in terms of your dating style and you can aim for that, and there’s a lot of variable ways to do it.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Yeah, but just have some flexibility, really. I mean, you should never sort of be 100% dogmatic about anything you do.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay, well, one of the things, because I’ve met most of my girlfriends over the last few years through meeting from a day situation, so I’m a big fan of it.

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: One of my mindsets is just you’re going about during your daily life and you may be quite busy, often I’m quite busy with meetings or whatever, and you happen to walk past a beautiful woman, why not take advantage of that opportunity? You don’t have to wait for a specific time of day.

[Jeremy Soul]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So I just wanted to point that advantage out, is just like you’re taking advantage of all these opportunities which most people don’t see. They don’t exist for them because they don’t even necessarily see the beautiful women because it’s not in their reality that you could just say hi, you could start something.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: The other thing I wanted to add is I’ve had some of the greatest kind of adventures in daytime situations where you meet a woman and over the next day just do crazy stuff together, and neither of you knew that was going to happen.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Right? And it’s like a crazy adventure, and women love it because you came out of nowhere and you did loads of great stuff together over a day or whatever and you basically completely swept them off their feet and took them out of their maybe slightly mundane life or whatever it is and maybe even an exciting life. But it’s very unexpected to…and there’s something very romantic about that, I guess.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that feeling of adventure and having an amazing experience with somebody is one of the big reasons why I do this.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: And even to this day, I mean, look, sometimes it is just another date, sometimes it’s just another woman, but then every so often you meet somebody who you have this mindboggling experience with. Even a colleague of mine at Love Systems that recently joined the company, he had that. At one of our last bootcamps he met this woman and he was like, “Look man, I’m going to stay an extra two nights because I want to spend this time with this girl. And I was like "Wow, cool." He was like, “Yeah, do you give me consent not to leave. And I was like, “Hey, listen, like those girls, that’s what makes it worthwhile for me. It’s not…” I mean, the random lays and sexual misadventures at times are fun, but it’s still the women that really kind of leave an imprint on you, I think that's what makes it worthwhile.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, certainly this kind of day game leads to those life experiences at the end of the day.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Life experiences. So, if you could give guys who’ve never done anything, any kind of daytime approach, what would be like the first five things or the first tips you would give them of how to get started with this, especially if they’re kind of scared about the whole concept of, “Okay, how do I this for the first time?”

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So what I do is try and grab a wingman, try and grab like a friend, someone to go do it with, because I find whenever you’re trying to do anything in life it’s so, so helpful to have people around you who are trying to achieve a similar goal, because it’s useful to share your successes with them when it happens, but also to sort of console each other when things don’t go so well and help keep each other motivated. It’s a pretty lonely existence to go out and just do it by yourself all the time, so try and grab like a friend or two and set a plan, say, like, “Listen, we’re going to go out and we’re going to practice this and keep it simple.”

So, my first day, pretty similar to your first day when you did this, was the goal of the day was to go up and open 10 women, just like going up to them and saying, “Excuse me, you are really cute.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: That was it, very simple, “Excuse me, you are really cute,” and I had to go up and do that 10 times. And obviously, the first time I went and did it I was stuttering and I was awkward, hand shaking or whatever, and felt horrible going up to women to do it, but after I did it, you realize actually it’s not as bad as you think it’s going to be, like you actually get a smile in most cases and a woman says, “Thank you.”

[Angel Donovan]: So with that approach you basically kind of took the pressure off yourself to get any result or any…

[Jeremy Soul]: Exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: You just kind of deliver your line and then you walk off if you want and it’s no big deal, you’ve done what you were supposed to do.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. Yeah. It’s such a throwaway thing, and then what you’ll find is sometimes the girl will stop and then maybe you’ll think of something to say. So you have the option to stay and have a conversation if you want, but there’s no pressure to stay.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. That sounds like a great way to get started.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Any other tips?

[Jeremy Soul]: I would say, I mean, how I teach my clients is always to sort of break down specific goals for that session, for the girls of that week or month or whatever. So, in the first case, I would suggest doing just that and getting over that approach anxiety by going up and using a throwaway compliment. Second stage, I would say it’s probably starting a basic conversation, and what I normally do is I do a little cold read or maybe ask a little question to that girl and try and get onto what I think could be a useful topic.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: So it might be where the girl’s from, it might be the nature of her work or it might be the kind of person she is. So, for example, it might be like, “You look like you’re Australian. You sound like you’re not from around here and I’m guessing you’re Australian,” and then try and say something about that. One of the biggest traps guys fall into is they do question and another question and another question, which is very boring for a girl to do.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Yes.

[Jeremy Soul]: But if you have a rule where you say, “I’m allowed to ask one question, but then I have to make a bunch of statements about her answer,” then that’s a good way to start to practice conversation.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so to give structure, what you just said was…so you basically said go out with a compliment and then you can start with a question about where she works or…

[Jeremy Soul]: Where she’s from or what she does for a living.

[Angel Donovan]: Where she’s from or what she does for a living. You said a cold read. Now, what you mean by cold read?

[Jeremy Soul]: So a cold read, I mean a cold read can be about those things, so it can be, “You know, you look like you do something real professional I’m guessing in your work.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, so you’re looking at her and you’re kind of like thinking, “Hmm, this is what I think of you,” and you’re telling her.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, yea. Or it might be the other side of the coin. It might be, “You’re dressed in a very sort of creative way, like what do you do for a living? Are you some kind of a musician or something?”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Jeremy Soul]: And it’s throwing a bit of juice into the conversation. So from there, right, she’ll either answer yes or no, basically or maybe somewhere in between, but regardless of what she says, you still introduce this topic…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Jeremy Soul]: …which if you sort of prepare, and this is where the sort of homework comes into it, doing a bit of preparation, but if you know a bit about this topic and you could say some cool things about it, then you can still throw those in. So if she turns around and says, “No, no…oh, that’s…” you know, that's so funny because I was starting off for a few years and I noticed the women that carry themselves very confidently have a lot to say.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. So it’s kind of like, do some homework and have something to talk about with maybe professions or like whatever subjects would you talk…

[Jeremy Soul]: So I would go professions, geography, like where she’s from, or sometimes the kind of person she is.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Jeremy Soul]: Sometimes like, “You seem like a really creative person.” Or you know, sometimes their mood is very friendly, and that can sometimes lead on to hobbies. So it might be like, “You seem very like friendly and I got this kind of well-travelled vibe from you.” Or it might be, “You seem very creative,” and then that leads them to work, like, “What do you do for a living?”

[Angel Donovan]: So she generally starts talking about this topic as well, right? Is it the kind of goal?

[Jeremy Soul]: A little bit, like you want her to…I mean, ideally she’d like to talk a little bit, but I don’t think it’s necessarily really useful if the woman starts ranting on and about that topic. If you want her to engage, I very much believe that for the first five or 10 minutes the man should be leading and dominating conversation, just speaking most of the time.

[Angel Donovan]: It’s kind of like we were saying before because, you know, they’re little bit surprised that they just got approached in some place.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: You’ve kind of got to take control of that, the conversation for a little bit, until she eases into it.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah. I find if she starts talking a lot, she’s too comfortable with this situation of a guy meeting her in the street or wherever…

[Angel Donovan]: Does that scare you off? [Laughs]

[Jeremy Soul]: Well, it’s kind of like she works in PR or she’s used to this and she’s probably just going to try and make a new contact to have fun with… or use for business.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So in a way you want her to be a little bit nervous.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah, yeah, you do. You do.

[Angel Donovan]: Interesting. Alright Jeremy, this has been a great interview. It’s been really good to meet you.

[Jeremy Soul]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: All this day game stuff, you specialize in it and it’s one of my favorite things, too. So yeah, thanks for this interview, and guys, there’s more information about his book on the site, like check it out, and if you have any questions about the interview, feel free to post them on the forum. Alright, thanks Jeremy.

[Jeremy Soul]: Thanks man. Good to meet you.

[Angel Donovan]: See you around.