Love Systems bootcamps originated with Mystery Method (the former name of the company). Some of the instructors were former Mystery Method instructors who trained under Mystery (Erik von Markovik). As a result some of the instructors have been coaching since early 2006.
Approaching Women•Attracting Women
23 of 23 people found the following review helpful
Instructor(s) for Coaching:
Date Program Took Place:
January 25, 2013
Like many of you, I was really excited by the prospect of a bootcamp that could improve my skills with women. Obviously, the go-to company that came to mind was love-systems and being that the program was coming to my city, I felt I needed to sign up.
Fast forward to the day of the bootcamp. The instructors arrive late to the first day of instruction, which, is not that much of a biggie. Then, they ask us to take a picture of the front and back of our driver's license and credit card, which I thought to be invasive, but, that too, was no biggie. Then, we were informed that a camera crew would be filming our seminar and infield session. I was more than a little irritated by the prospect of a camera-crew being present during our session. Okay, I don't know about all of you, but shelling out 3 grand for a seminar on how to get better with girls is already an extremely embarrassing situation. Now, picture you in a room with other students learning about this stuff, and have a room full of camera crew-men filming, laughing, and commenting on the bootcamp. When we were learning some scripts of openers it was intimidating to be watched by all of these guys. Anyways. during the first day of the seminar, we learned some inner game stuff and some basic openers to go in with. Literally all of the stuff that I learned I had already read previously. Some of the other stuff seemed so cheesy that I wouldn't have been able to say it in field. Whatever, the main reason I took the bootcamp was to practice with these guys in field, so I was going to let all previous transgressions slide. When we got infield...low and behold, there was the camera staff. We went in field and Tenmagnet said that we would be treated as a priority over the camera crew, which was assuring. I had approached hundreds of girls using the exact same lines as these instructors, but I wanted to see close up, just how these lines were executed, which is why I had paid a premium for this service. As soon as Tenmagnet had approached a set, I followed him in to see what he was saying and how he was saying it. He then left the set..which was a little odd. Later, while we were venue changing he told me that I was not allowed to enter his sets unless an instructor invited me in. I was taken aback by this comment, and had complained to the junior instructor about this. He said he was sorry but the only reason Tenmagnet had said that was because he was filming and he needed some quality shots. Woah there, I just spent 3k and I frankly don't care if you're filming. It would have been fine if I was actually invited in to some sets at some point. But by the end of my first day I had not seen 1 SINGLE DEMONSTRATION UP CLOSE. Nevermind the fact that they had left the bootcamp early the first day...I was infuriated, and complained to the instructor. I was literally begging and pleading with both instructors to do a set with me but they KEPT REFUSING. Then they put it back on me telling me that I should go approach sets for experience. At this point, I've done 100 freaking approaches using the exact material you taught me, I wanted to do some with the actual instructors. The second day after the instructors again showed up late we learned some material, which again could be found online for free. Then we went out again for the next night with the instructors again being late. This time I thought the camera crew wasn't going to be there, and I was elated by this fact and had even shared this with the instructor. Low and behold...the camera crew came back for the second night. I was so pissed. Both of the instructors had kept telling me stories about their approaches that night and how much success they had. If I didn't see it, how is that a demo. How is that different from reading about it online. Whatever. The last day the instructors again showed up late. This day we learned some more stuff about dates, text game etc. Okay I will give them that the last day I had learned some quality material. But I'm sure if I looked hard enough that too could be found online. I had left the last day knowing that I would go back home and ask for my money back at the first chance I could. It was then that I discovered that the bootcamp policy is that you ask for your money back at the seminar. I couldn't get my money back for my travesty of an experience because I complained about the bootcamp a few hours after the fiasco. I thought it was way too uncomfortable for me to ask the very people who conducted the bootcamp for my money back in front of all of the students and I was punished by this.
I wrote an email to Tenmagnet explaining how much awful I thought the bootcamp was and he promised me infield footage of his approaches. I was happy that he was at least doing something to make amens for his poor performance at the bootcamp. However, several months went by and he still did not give me what was promised to me. When I finally asked for an update he told me that he was unable to give me any footage because the film company considered in confidential.
All in all, I would have to say the junior instructor during my session (Intrigue) definitely did have skill in field. Tenmagnet was alright (I guess) But in the end I feel like a 1/10 review is waayyyyyyy tooo generous for these guys.
I imagine that most people reading reviews like this one are guys trying to decide if shelling out three grand and a weekend of their life is either going to, (a) change their life for the better, like everyone says, or (b) just add up to another wasted 72+ hours and, even worse, a new monetary representation of just how big a failure their life is.
These are all questions I batted around for a few weeks when I was trying to decide whether this was a good idea or not. For those of you looking to compare, I'm mid-twenties, have had about a half-dozen partners, but lately have suffered some life setbacks and got LJBFd by a bunch of women, and it was screwing with my mind. I recognized that this was turning into a self-defeating pattern, and I realized that I didn't know why it was happening. I sensed that I would find the answer(s) at a bootcamp, even though I couldn't be sure. I decided that I would rather risk a failure than pass by the opportunity for success. I knew that if I didn't do it, I would always blame myself for not trying, and that would be so much worse than admitting afterward that it was a bad decision.
That being said, I have absolutely no regrets after taking the bootcamp, even though the dollars are still a little tight, and I still have a lot of growing to do. It turned out to be everything I expected it to be, which is saying a lot because my expectations were through the ceiling. But Fader in particular is the reason I got so much more out of it than I expected.
I had my doubts about bootcamps. For one thing it was the cost and another the travel. Fader made it worthwhile. I recently bought Savoy's 'magic bullets' couple weeks ago. Finished it and wanted to put theory into practice. Signed up for LA bootcamp but was too late it soldout. I was redirected to Houston. Don't know anything about the community or reputation of instructors! Got off the plane on Friday and went directly to meet Fader in the hotel. My first impression was he seem very charismatic. We got going on the material immediately. I have to say the lecture was intense. So much to learn and so little time! Fader is very knowledgable in the pickup game. That night we went out and watch him in action. First set of two bitches he got shot down immediately. Good to see that it didn't bother him. He went straight into another set. We ended going to another venue where we saw him number closed twice! It was fun seeing him do his thing. He made everyone opened a set and apply what we learned earlier. The night ended well. Next day we continued with lecture material and we went to out again to apply what we learned. Pretty much everyone opened sets and number closed. So proud of my group. We ended up meeting the dj after the club closed and hang out with him at a strip club and afterhour club. What a night! The next day we continued with lecture. Fader is a great instructor. He knows his shit! He's a walking encyclopedia of pick games. More importantly he's approachable, kind and honest. I think if you are thinking about a bootcamp you should signup with Fader and go through with it. I'm glad I did. Thanks Fader you're the best!!!
Sorry for the delay in writing this review, unfortunately life seems to have caught me with me right after the bootcamp. I want to make sure this is a review and not another field report (though we all had much to report, ?).
Ok I couldn’t resist.
a) Managed to play 8-9 even at times 10 game
b) Paid for less than 20% of my drinks.
c) Had my standards wrenched up.
d) Two weeks of returning from camp got six phone closes of 8-9 and one 10.
e) Was so wired on the material that I picked up a 9 three rows behind me in the airplane, and went on a date immediately on landing.
Mr. M is the guy you want as your friend, who has your back. Not because he’s the all American quarterback who you want to make sure is a part of your network, but because he is truly a nice guy and a great human being. What astonished me was he absolute commitment to making sure everyone in the bootcamp learned to their full potential. That meant for those who were doing really well to up the ante, and for those who were struggling or were losing heart to sometimes chase after them to make sure they benefited from attending. I was impressed with his ability to sort through his own personal opinions and the official materials, he was very careful to make sure that we knew exactly what we learning, and had a properly structure around it. You immediately see he is quite intelligent, and is able to make dry theory come alive with stories, graphs, and plain good old fashion humor. I was worried that the length of the theory part would make the camp tedious, but time flew by very quickly. He is extremely honest, in terms of his praise and criticism, but also in terms of what you can do and what you cannot do with the knowledge gained. I appreciated his firm grounding in reality, which gave much more credibility to his words, and certainly gave us all realistic achievable goals. Much of what you learn is the dispelling of myths.
To put it in a single sentence, Mr. M makes your learning his personal responsibility, and having attending the best schools in the world, I can truly appreciate how rare and wonderful that is.
The Support Team
Mr. M could not have been as successful with it wasn’t for his A star support team, both in PUAs and approach coaches. These guys were absolutely selfless in their quest to make sure that you learnt and you were successful. This often involved jumping on grenades, which at times was truly painful to watch. My goal in field nights was to try out every single routine and theory I had learnt, and much of these came from the support team that rocked. Through the theory lessons they were able to add their own unique perspectives and understanding, as well as ensure that an eight-person classroom felt more like a one on one lesson. Each of them was a master at an aspect of them game, and in their element it was incredible to watch. With them present there was always someone you could ask a question, get a clarification from, or simply do a try run of an approach and get instant feedback.
Highroller – thanks man, you were awesome.
Mr. M is a great advocate of what he calls “the man game” direct approaches with sexual intent that quickly establish what the night is going to be all about. Thus, apart from learning the regular official content, we were treated to his own (and of the support team’s) personal game insights. What made it work brilliantly was their ability to clearly indicate what the source of the insight was, and to credit the different PUAs with them. Often these were at odds with the official materials, but the conflicts were clearly stated and drawn out.
Having read the book “The Game” it was refreshing and relieving to see that the PUA community had continued to innovate and develop strategy and tactics. Much has changed since the publication of the book, and would encourage anybody who has read it to take a bootcamp to update themselves on the latest thought processes, and practical applications of this.
I will give words of warning though, like all knowledge, the tools and skills here are ethically neutral. They can be wielded for great good, or for great evil, and for most people somewhere in between. “With great power comes great responsibility” (Spiderman). I would encourage everyone to watch the movie “Dangerous Liaisons” (1997) with an all star cast, as a reality check on how you want to use this knowledge, and even the possibilities both for right and wrong.
Why the bootcamp?
Apart from all the stuff above, I really bought into the need for attending a bootocamp. There is something to be said for a group of individuals entering a club together with a single purpose, and being able to help and criticize each other through the process. I was shocked at some of the transformations that took place. Within a few nights shy people had become confident and outgoing, individuals who could hardly speak to girls were now figuring out how to handle 2-3 at a time. The bootcamp is an accelerated learning experience, and a great way to get some structure and personalized feedback. I also think I made some great friends, and look forward to keeping in touch with them. ?
I have read Magic Bullets, the MM, The game, most of David D(I hate him so much, wasted so much money on his [stuff]).
The way Tenmagnet tought the class was much different then I expected, I thought it was pretty much going to be Magic Bullets all over again, but in a bit more detail. I was wrong, Tenmagnet pretty much tought us in a way that actually made a loooot more sence. I had a shitload of "aha" moments during the seminar....
If you are trying to get good at this and have read Magic Bullets, Mystery Method, The Game, DYD, or whatever the hell is out there. Take the seminar/bootcamp, I wish I could do the in field portion, but there are certain reasons that I can't YET, just 2 and a half more months till I can! It is a LOT different when these guys are showing you exactly how to do it.
Usually when I'm in class for 5 hours, I get BOOOORED EASILY, not once did that happen with these guys, time flew and not once did it drag on.
Tenmagnet and Cajun were awesome, I hope to definately go sarging with them(and I will), Jude was another new instructor, I think it was his first time as a instructor and he had nothing but good advice to give. Very cool guy. One thing that I think its really cool that Tenmagnet is from my city, it will be a lot easier to meet up with him for 1 on 1's and it helps when they know your city. All the guys there were super cool too, made some new friends and yeah. Real eye opener. If you are serious about this shit, then I think it is obvious to do this. I think this changed my life.
BTW when I asked the students how Tenmag and Cajun did in the field, their answer..."these guys are legends."
Like Miaddict said, Tenmagnet is really good at getting what he has in his head, into your head. He doesn't fluff on a subject for 3 hours, he breaks it down in a way thats so simple to understand. Everything I have read in the past few months, I'd have to say that I learned more from Tenmagnet in a few hours than I have in all the books and products I have ordered(which is like probably over 100 hours of material).
Would You Recommend It?
Ease of Implementation:
Packaging/ Customer Service:
Value for Money:
Reviewed by RoutineSpittinAnimal September 27, 2009
I must first say that my experience at the charlotte bootcamp with Fader rocked , ( the man pulled a stripper !!! )not only was he a great instructor he now is also my friend . so fellas lets break it down , you've researched enough , read or studied some of the information available out there ( I highly recommend MAGIC BULLETS its the holy grail ) and have got far enough in your own understanding to consider a bootcamp . You want more . This is where I speak from experience , I too sat where you are now . After taking the bootcamp with fader the game changed for me , it wasn't text or theory anymore it was real !
...to sum it up , Im just like you but the bootcamp has changed me. If your thinking about a bootcamp stop thinking and do it! also to Fader I say THANK YOU dude your a hell of a guy and I take what i learned from you with me everday. But watch out , up your game b#tchs there is a new player in town and the next stripper is hitmans!!!!!!!!!
This was the first bootcamp I attended and overall it was a good experience. Fader takes the training seriously, and I felt that he had a good mastery of the material. The workshop is broken down into three afternoon sessions (Fri, Sat, Sun) followed by two evening sessions at the local clubs (Fri, Sat). The afternoon sessions were held in Fader’s hotel room. Most of the teaching comes from notes Fader reads from his computer, and there is sufficient opportunity to ask questions and discuss the information. I took 36 pages of notes. Make sure you bring a notebook to write everything down. It is not possible to cover the complete psychology of dating in 2 ½ days. This was an introductory course to the topic and it allowed me to begin recognizing both the positive (successful) and negative (unsuccessful) behaviors I exhibit, as well as understand better the overall framework of dating. I came to the course with reasonable expectations, not planning to become a Don Juan by the end of the course, but hoping to be able to learn about and begin utilizing the basic tools to develop my personality and game better.
I recommend this bootcamp and Fader as an instructor. Fader is a good guy and will work with his students. He is very responsive and is interested in his students’ understanding of the material and progress. There were two other students at my bootcamp, and I enjoyed their company greatly. I thought our group had great chemistry and I was able to learn a lot from the other guys as well. I think I was probably the “weak link.” Fader purposely kept his bootcamp smaller, and this was a huge benefit. If I had any suggestions for a better bootcamp, it would be to research the city and the venues beforehand, so that there would be a short-list of the clubs to visit. Next time, I would also suggest that Fader stay in downtown Charlotte, where the clubs and better hotels are located. Thanks, Fader, for everything. I would guess, years from now, I will look back on our weekend, and appreciate the truly life-changing experience it was.
Attending this workshop was one of the BEST DECISIONS I have ever made.
When I met Fader, I could tell that this weekend was going to change my life. His passion and experience, along with his honesty with himself and others sets him and his workshops apart, in that it will lay a strong foundation for the rest of your life.
Fader’s teaching method is not only comprehensive in the sense that he is actively still learning from the other “masters” so that he can pass this along to his students but also very intelligent in that he teaches his students the psychology and the “why” behind what works and what doesn’t work so that you can understand your future sticking points and resolve them on your own.
I highly recommend the field portion of the program with Fader – that is where I learned how to think on my feet and correct any actions that were not helping me meet my objectives. Being new, Fader knows where people get stuck and will correct what needs to be corrected.
It also gave us an opportunity to watch Fader in action – which will speed your learning curve tremendously. Fader showed no fear in going up to women (he will teach you why) and was able to create attraction / comfort / seduction situations that I frankly thought were impossible. One student said that the in field portion of the bootcamp was well worth the price of admission. I definitely agree.
A few recommendations for attending his sessions:
• Come with an open mind and be prepared for your life to change
• Come well rested (Fader has a TON of experience and wants to share as much as he can
• On that note, bring a laptop (way too much to jot down on a notepad)
• Stay in the same hotel as Fader – just makes the logistics easier
My goal for this workshop was to learn how to approach women in different settings and push myself through the different stages of the model. I know that what I learned this past weekend has made an incredible difference already and will allow me to pursue the opportunities I choose in the future.
"The Amount of Learning Opportunity is Totally Exhausting!"
Instructor(s) for Coaching:
Date Program Took Place:
May 29, 2009
Fader is an instructor that is really clear about the lovesystem models and game in general, but thats just the beginning. His zest and enthesiasm for life personifies the concept of 'self amusement'. It wasn't just the stripper that he closed from the extra field time he gave us, but the investment banker that was sending him drinks and hitting on him just from picking up his vibe
from afar. It was one hell of an example.
Perhaps this is why Fader starts his Bootcamp lecture with inner game, to show his students the connection. Fader went the extra mile by sharing his life experiences to demonstrate how his inner game evolved and directly impacts game.
Moreover, he limits his class size and this allows for in depth, no holds barred,questions from students at any level. Having attended larger LS bootcamps, this feature really sets Fader apart (but all bootcamps I have attended have been good-no shit). The opportunity to stop and probe deeper really is unique and makes game clearer.
Fader's field critique's were right on for all of us. He was quite observant even
while teaching by example by opening many sets of his own. Fader gave each of the 'next step' to take to get to the next level.
If I have a critizicism, it would be the amount of learning opportunity is totally exhausting! So take advantage of every second of his Bootcamp!