In this interview, Mr. M, one of Love Systems' Lead Instructors talks about the recently released book he co-authored with Braddock: "The Ultimate Guide to Text and Phone Game".
You'll also get to know the guy behind the dating coach - he talks about his background, what he did before dating coaching, his success with women, how he learned to get good, some of the toughest students he has helped, what his dating lifestyle is like today and his future aspirations and plans.
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Angel: This is Dating Skills Review, Angel here. Today we’ve Mr. M from Love Systems.
Mr. M: Hey Angel how are you doing?
Angel: Alright great to have you here man.
Mr. M: Great to be here.
Angel: The purpose of the interview today is two fold. First of all Love Systems is just about to bring out a new book and Mr. M is one of the authors, so we’re going to get some insight into that and what it’s all about. And secondly, because we haven’t had Mr. M here before is just to get to know him as a person, as a dating coach. So you guys can get to know him, where he’s come from and see if he has a dating lifestyle that you’re looking for and things along those lines. So it’s something you’d like to get to know about.
So Mr. M it would be great if we could start this by hearing a bit about the new book that you’re bringing out?
Mr. M: Okay no problem. The book is called The Ultimate Guide to Text and Phone Game, and it was written by myself, Mr. M and Braddock and other leaders we trust with Love Systems. And the book is about a year and a half in the making and it came from the realization that you can’t go home with a girl every single night…well you can’t go home with a girl that you want, that you think you want every single night.
Sometimes you have to because of logistical reasons, or whatever else just take her phone number. And what myself and brother and Braddock figured out was that it was a really important skill set for us to be able to get the type of quality of girls that we wanted to be able to be extremely effective on the phone. To be able to cause massive attraction and to increase our close rate to really high levels on the phone, that’s exactly what the book covers. So it goes though a lot of basic stuff on playing the text game, and then it goes through some of the more advanced stuff. The basics stuff is like first contact, whether to call or to text, what to say in the first text. And then looking to the different types of interactions that you have over the phone with different types of girls, it goes in to three categories. If girls really like you, girls who you have to work a little bit more for and how to do that, and then it goes through how to build attraction through the phone, so really powerful phone technique.
And then the more advanced topics like sexualisation and what we call addiction by way of the telephone, that’s a little bit darker. But it’s really powerful stuff in terms of…I mean I’m sure you’ve all been there when you’re waiting to by your phone for a girl to call you and you’re just looking at your phone or you feel your phone in your pocket because she hasn’t texted you or she hasn’t called you. That is actually the highest level of…one of the highest levels of what we call addiction or phone attraction. And you can actually do that, there are a series of steps but through maintaining the correct mind stead it’s very easy for you to create that sort of attraction where a girls is basically waiting for your phone call and wants to hear from you.
We go into things like that and there is sexualisation over the phone, made up strategies, it’s a really comprehensive book, it’s over a hundred and sixty pages (160). And this is going to be one of the actual products that myself and Braddock have brought out. And it was very important for us because we’ve got a suit of stuff coming out this year. And it’s very important for us to bring out not only a very high quality product but we want to actually create completely break through revolutionary stuff that concretes our contribution to the community. Because you know the dating community has given up so much in terms of…just being proven in the quality of life that it was important to me not to rehash old BS but do a really innovating and encouraging stuff. I’m really proud to say that I think you’ll find that within the product that’s what we’ve done. I want to get everything out before I retire from the community per say, which I will do pretty soon.
Angel: Well that’s interesting stuff and I see you’ve brought up a lot of different conversation points there. I believe you mentioned, I don’t know if you just mentioned right now I don’t think you did. But you mentioned to me earlier how long the book was, so it’s like a hundred and fifty (150) page did you say?
Mr. M: Yeah it’s over a hundred and fifty (150) pages. Let me just get the beta version out now because it hasn’t even launched yet so, yeah the beta version is over a hundred and sixty pages (160). And that’s not including any of the bonus book or some of the little last minute adjustments that we may make even though it’s 95 percent done right now.
Angel: Okay great.
Mr. M: As much as it’s a book about playing the game, like all games if you get your mindset in a game worked out, then you don’t have to think so much about what you’re doing in every moment you can just act off the reaction bring, which is wired toward attraction. So in the book we give you systems and there are a lot of examples of text exchanges, phone exchanges, very, very long text exchanges, and we analyse a lot of them. But we also go into the mindset of the successful playing text game which is very similar to the mind set for successfully creating attraction within women. So all of that is really comprehensively dealt with in the book.
Angel: Awesome stuff and I just want to get one bit clear about it. It has examples as well, it sounded like it tells you a lot about what to do, do you also have examples of exact texts and stuff like that in it?
Mr. M: Yeah, I mean there is a funny story of me actually sitting down for like half an hour and then typing out a text from my blackberry and then me getting so tired of typing out this text I gave it to a pal of mine to type out and then he being so tired he gave it to another instructor. That’s what we call a long fuse, a girl who is…I think she was a model and I ended up sleeping with her but it took a long time because you know she was worth it but she was super intelligent, and so I did that using a long fuse playing text game. Which is basically when you’re not getting much compliance and she’s not hooking very much, you don’t what to do, you don’t know if she likes you, how to turn that situation around. And I think just looking at it now, that transcript is over four pages and it’s not responding, it’s exactly what I see and why I see it’s going right women are wrong texts I used. But it this way if you opened the book at a random page I’m pretty sure you’d see examples and the principle behind them, in terms of a probability based.
I’m just ripping through it right now and I’ve flipped through four pages and three of the four have actually examples. We created it to be able to be useable. There’s much to be learned if you break through. Savoy would not let us create a book that was not really, really highly usable to people who use Love Systems.
Angel: Yes and I know that it’s basically the only book to come out on this specific theme. So I’m looking forward to seeing it and reviewing it and I’m sure it’s going to have some interesting stuff there and so I’m looking forward to that.
You just popped out there towards the end when you were talking, saying you were going to retire from dating coaching. Before we get into that it would be good to like kind of know how you got into dating coaching in the first place, and how long you’ve been in it. How old are you now?
Mr. M: 27.
Angel: Just to give people a bit of background. Just give us some background on how you got into learning about dating, what were you doing just before that, and basically what you’ve been doing while you’ve been in dating coaching. How you’ve evolved and what’s going on with this retirement stuff?
Mr. M: Sure, well the story is, not that I like to advertise this much, but it is a sort of rags to riches story which seems to be a pretty consistent theme through my life. I know you and I Angel were talking about this just before and it’s interesting that my family was from the slums in Indonesia and I’ve come a long way to Love Systems was launched. But it’s in the same way; I grew up a small Asian kid in a very alpha male society in Sydney Australia. And really if you’ve ever been there you’ll know that there are some incredible naturals there. And I was a good kid I got good grades and I worked really hard at school I participated in sports and stuff and I was a pretty happy kid.
But then as I hit the teenage years I started to become interested in girls but none of them started to become interested in me. And that was really crushing to me. In hind sight actually now that I am where I am, I’m actually pretty happy, which means I wasn’t distracted, and I focused a lot on my studies. But I really buried myself in my studies. But I thought to myself a few times that I wasn’t meant to be the geek.
I wasn’t good with girls, and other guys were good at that and I was better at intelligence and things. It wasn't a good place to be mentally. But it was a way that I kept happy while I was growing up.
And during the university years I hadn’t picked up any girls. And a couple of times in that period I got my heart completely shattered by a girl. And when I gave the example before of the phoning text game there were numerous times I remember, numerous times where I would just look at my phone waiting and hoping for a text from a specific girl. I came in from a pretty dark place and something that Sheriff said to me. Sheriff said to me it’s a principle of emotional leverage. He said look a lot of the guys in this…a lot of the guys that get really good are the guys that came from such a bad place before that they compensated and they really took their dating skills up to levels which made sure that they would never…what they experienced in the past would never affect them again.
Angel: Right, it’s like…it’s kind of like the over compensation through your insecurity principle.
Mr. M: Exactly, yeah. Interesting thing is Angel, I was reading a book recently on billionaires and basically I had this discussion before and I definitely recommend it for you. It went through the childhood of only self made billionaires and it said that most of them came from a place of scarcity, most of them with different obvious principles behind them. But most of them still came from a place of scarcity. And interestingly all the time it’s from money, although it was that sort of undetermined area, a lot of it was from being social outcasts.
But in any case the principle remained the same, you create some sort of emotional leverage. So I had the emotional leverage and then one day I always came across products for improving dating, I thought they were complete bull shit. And I thought they were just trying to make money off me and that sort of thing. And what ended up happening was a friend of mine, my cousin actually, sent me an email saying this is what happens to you. When I totally messed up with this girl and I couldn’t concentrate and I was shattered, I was depressed, this was when I was about 21 or 22. And he sent me this email and as soon as I opened the email and read it I called him and I was like, dude you are an absolute genius, this is exactly what happened to me. And he said, you know the advice that I’ve been giving to you, well that’s from them.
And as soon as I figured out that there was actually a legitimacy behind this stuff, and I was insane. In my mind I would consider myself a fairly brilliant mind in some respects and when I turned that weapon onto dating time…at that point in time I was the youngest lecturer ever at the University of Sydney, which is Australia’s popular university. I was getting paid a ridiculous amount for a very short period of time, which meant that I had a lot more time spent on learning dating signs which is exactly what I did. I spent one day working and six days just reading about dating sites, watching dating signs, just incredible. Actually funnily enough Angel what we were talking about before, the only two times in my life which I’ve worked the hardest are now and that point in time when I was learning about dating signs.
Angel: So thinking back to that I would think a lot of us had that. I have that nostalgia too where I was putting as much time in as you were and it was really a healthy studious obsession. I don’t know about you but I kind of think back to it like it’s a bit nostalgic because you’re learning so much as well and everything’s changing so fast so it’s kind of like a great period.
Mr. M: I mean its evolution isn’t it, I mean it’s literally your mind and the way you see yourself and the way you see the world evolving. Which feels…it’s like and orgasm for your brain, it’s an incredible, incredible feeling.
So basically there’s that and I kind of got some result in Sydney but then unfortunately I wasn’t actually happy. What I found was that I got some results I hooked up with three or four girls and then I wasn’t happy. I found out that I could get some girls and I wasn’t happy, I wasn’t happy with the quality of girls.
But in general I wasn’t happy, I couldn’t figure out why. But I remember David DeAngelo and a bunch of other guys rushed me one of the dating games book and I’d read a lot on Buddhism, Hinduism and things like that. so basically one day I told my parents that I was moving to London, and before I was moving to London I was going to go into one of the most rural regions of Africa and live with this monk over there who was from India and he was doing good work.
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: So I went over there and had this amazing experience. There were literally…you had to get a goat, kill it, cook it and eat it. You can probably appreciate what I went through in this period. But it really made me guilty to eat it an hour later, which is a really bizarre experience. But I also took a lot of inner game books and learning with me and I went for two months and I lived on a concrete floor in Africa and it really changed me. I brought a lot of the David DeAngelo stuff, you know the inner game stuff and I came to London after that and was hired by one of the Manchester Law firms there. I had previously been working for an investment bank called Rothschild to be an investment banker. But I went to London and worked for a Manchester Law firm there and while I was doing that I kept looking for self improvement and learning games.
And one day I was in a club and I was talking to a few girls and someone came up to me and said, hey man have you heard of the game? And the truth is I read the game but only like four months after I’d actually discovered dating signs. And so I was like, yeah I have, and he was like, you’re really good actually you should…there’s this guy starting his own company. And basically it’s from there I started to work for an old, old company called the Core of Seduction in London. Then I moved from the core. I approached another instructor and did some work with the Juggler guys. I basically met some of the Mystery Method guys at that time before Mystery Method became Love Systems. And I basically tried to learn as much as I could trying to bring value to those people. So I’d say something…I’d do things like, help them with legal advice. I’d go to a program and help out as much as I could. And I just hung around just to learn.
And over the time I became very good and I became an instructor for this company and one day I’m a Mystery Method instructor and I came across Mitch as an instructor who actually saw me in the field and who heard about me. But I was never very active on community forums; I choose to live my life in the real world. And what happened he virtually said listen you’re actually good become a coach for me. And I said sure I come to your boot camp, I’ve learned from you, and he said yeah. This was actually Sheriff believe it or not.
Angel: Wow.
Mr. M: And then I chilled it on program and then sheriff invited me to do a…I mean I was already a lead instructor with the other company it’s just Love Systems. But he invited me to L.A and all expenses paid trip to L.A. And you know I loved doing that, I loved finding good talent and saying to them congratulations, I’m willing to pay for you to come to L.A to show your skills. For a young guy that’s a pretty cool thing.
Angel: Yeah lots of exciting times.
Mr. M: Yeah, I mean he blew me away. I mean here I was small you know kid from Australia. Taken to London and someone said you know you’re good enough with girls I want to show case you to the head honchos in L.A. I was really nervous I admit. I came to L.A and I was meant to meat Nick Savoy, I was so nervous I was meeting him I was just tongue tied, and a few of the other guys. I didn’t think I had many thoughts I was just happy to be there.
And there was this really hot girl in our hotel lobby who I approached and later on I was in her bedroom. I didn’t get to close her actually but it was close, and she turned out to be a playmate. And that was an approach that I did in front of two or three instructors.
Angel: Yeah I remember you talking about that way back.
Mr. M: Yeah, and so that was the only field report I ever wrote. Savoy really pushed me to write that field report, I don’t like writing field reports. I keep my love life private. You will not find another field report that I’ve written.
So I went to L.A and pulled a playmate, or rather hooked up with a playmate, I didn’t pull her home. And yeah so I got back to London and they made me an offer to become an instructor because I also had a good head on my shoulders. And then things started to really kick off and I found I really enjoyed helping people improving their lives. And I continued with it, and that’s where I am now. And I’m also at the point now where I’m trying to start my own businesses and really come to a point where I’m also successful in other areas in my life. So that’s my evolution, my progress.
Angel: Thanks, thanks that’s a really, really good review of how you got there. So I’m just wondering about the time line from when you first started using this stuff in Australia to when you became a Love Systems instructor. How long was that between the two dates, roughly?
Mr. M: I was 22, 23 when I found out. It’s was about three and a half years.
Angel: Three and a half years. So you said you invested quite a bit of time at the start, you obviously continued to invest that. And you did some, I’d say unique things, you know you really put some effort in in terms of like you went to Africa, on how to win a game and you focused on that. And you went about learning the smart way by hanging out with people and beginning to associate with a lot of people who are already good. So that must have really helped you to learn quite quickly and become quite good. I just wanted to point out that back then there weren’t really that many products out right. So you’re talking about what year was it, it would be like 2005 somewhere around there?
Mr. M: Yes, yep, yep.
Angel: Back then there weren’t so many products as you said like there was David DeAngelo, so you were reading that. But now there are a lot more products and you know things have moved on a lot more. What would you say about that because you were kind of learning from a dating science which is less evolved than today?
Mr. M: Yeah. You know interestingly enough I think what that did was actually make me…I think it just slowed down my progress a little bit, just because I didn’t have the type or resource or those resources. I mean I had a lot of resources there was still quite a bit out there but it wasn’t as ideally as evolved as it is today. So it sent me down a weird path first, there was some pretty desperate routines, you know I started off learning routines, and that’s not where I am right now I’ve moved beyond that. So it’s taken me off a routine. It’s hard enough when you’re in the same conversation 500 times.
But thinking about it, because of the lack of material back then I ought to tell you there wasn't a lot of material. So things like influence by Cialdini, and the Erogenous zones by Brier, and a lot of these other books that were recommended by David DeAngelo. Some of them were rules but more in the self help industry, and the psychology industry.
Now if I had the resources that were available today, I’m sure it would have made my growth much quicker…this is why I like it, I am interested really helping. The truth is Angel that with the percentage of the company based products that I release, we’re not looking at a lot of money or something, like I’m not going to make over 100,000 dollars in a year if I release ten products. The company just thinks too much of the percentage. I’m not going to say the percentage that we get, it’s probably a pittance. But I do like thinking that out there there is someone like me who was at the point that I was at and had the resources of it, DVD’s and the thoughts that I have released, that I am releasing and that some of our competitors have released. I am more than happy to recommend a competitor’s product, you know I respect the content that’s put out there. And some of their products are actually absolutely revolutionary and really helped me as well.
So I would encourage a guy, forget hanging around ugly people, but we always say in the inner game seminar…I’m sorry in a positive, hang around people who are good at the game. Interestingly in this, in the inner game seminar we say that there are three things that create mastery, right. And if you’re not hitting mastery in certain areas in your life then you’re missing one of these three things. And it’s knowledge, its mentors and its experience, the three things.
So to get the knowledge either learn as much as you can from the materials that are out there. Just be a sponge for it. Get mentors, hang around, teach you to get you on your way, right. And you must, you must get the experience. And the experience is actually going out there and doing it falling flat on your face, fucking up, getting into all the problems. You know you have to go through that phase, it’s a crucial phase and it’s really almost a rite of passage. So you need to get through it you’ll feel like a lot more of a man.
So you know yeah things have changed but my approach would be slightly different now. I don’t think my approach would be different I still read a lot and apply it as much as I could. But what I think would change is that I get better information more quickly and I have a wider spectrum of ideas to choose from. One thing I’m going to say though, back then you know people like Ross Jeffries…there was really, really weird shit out there. Like hypnosis to seduce women, and Ross Jeffries Anchoring by way of touch and all this which I appreciate can work.
But here’s the thing Angel that I would recommend to everyone, there is part of your mind, your mind that tells you when you’re talking to someone and you trust them or you don’t; you think that they’re a good person or you don’t; and you get an instinct about someone right. When I first saw some of the dating collections out there I was like…I immediately said to myself, there is something about this guy which doesn’t click for me, it isn’t a good thing for me to follow so I’m not going to follow it, right. And that…I mean I took from them things that I thought would work and theories which I thought I’d try out. I never became them, I never sought to become them, I never worshiped them. I hate people…there are some people in this community where talking Angel about how people that are very eager driven within this community. And I told you if I had a choice to not quit Mr. M or any of the products that I released just have people see them, which would be my preference.
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: But yeah I mean there are a lot of people out there who are really sort of weird and eager to try and teach this. And here is something that they say for you to do, and it doesn’t sound right, then trust yourself to think that. Because the things that sound right are the things that work, right. Like blatant principles of non-neediness of becoming a better human being, or being more confident. Spiritual theories of the way social dynamics work, those are the things that make sense. And they either should pass the bullshit filter and your this is not weird filter. And I think really did it right because instead of becoming a weird community orientated guide it’s saying pass through my core and trust my instincts on the things I learned.
Angel: Great Mr. M thanks that’s some really good stuff and some helpful advice for people when they’re looking for what they should do and what they should not. Because it’s true there’s a lot of different stuff out there and it’s sometimes difficult to know what you should trust.
Mr. M: Sure.
Angel: Let’s take a step back here, what is your dating life like today?
Mr. M: We were talking about this before Angel. The funny thing is right now I’ve come to a point where…I mean last year I was ranked one of the top ten pickup artists in the world and I was like on fire. I mean absolutely on fire. But when you sleep with the whole lot of girls you start to realise that what you want is a lot higher quality girls, and more importantly a lot higher quality lifestyle. Putting up with women just happens, if I was a guy…I mean I could pull a girl every single night if I wanted to. I’m not saying I’d pull a ten every single night, I mean I do live in London and it’s hard to find them. But what I’m saying is, if I wanted I could. But now I think of it as so abundant it’s a lot less of an issue to me now because it’s so abundant, you know.
And I am dating a girl right now it’s not an exclusive relationship but I still hook up with other girls. And she’s comfortable with that because she knows what I do as well. I’m pretty honest with girls that I hook up with. I remember thinking holy shit how can a girl ever accept you hooking up with other girls. And if it’s up to me it’s not easy, but when you get to a certain level you know how to do it, you know.
And so the girl I’m dating right now is a stripper, she’s one of the like ten sharpest girls there. And I didn’t meet there I met in a club, so if that’s like any indication of some game then it’s a good sign. So I’m dating here and any day of the week I could go out and pick up.
I travel a lot for my businesses, like we were talking about how I was just around your area zone actually in Asia visiting my factories in China and in Indonesia and Hong Kong. And I have a few business interests in Hong Kong which are doing well, and I have a good income from Love Systems. So right now I would say that hook ups happen regularly, like it’s not even a question of hook up any more. It is sometimes a question of how hot the girl would be, and I’m really, really going for only nine or tens, but you typically get one of those every one or two weeks that you see. And a lot of the time they’re taken or you don’t always have a 100 percent hit ratio in the game. But those are the type of girls that I go with. What I’m shopping now is really my social service to have a really solid group of what we call navy seal team advisors around me, who enhance both my life and my ability to keep up.
The interesting thing about that, I don’t want to get into the extreme technology. Within social circle mastery in the inner game, we realised that the males that you surround yourself with are often more important than the females in terms of your ability to pick up. Because the one that you interact in a social group is a…what John Nash called a signaling mechanism to girls around you to see how attractive you are, because they can more accurately judge. Or the subconscious brain will accurately judge your social value by way of the way people act around you and their status as well.
So I have now a navy seal team in London and internationally. I’m thinking about moving to L.A next year, or this year. And you know reuniting with Braddock and two instructors from Love Systems who are also on the same path as me. And really developing a life style where I’m going to play…there’s no two ways about it I’m a multi millionaire with work who can travel a lot. But who also has the good business sense delivering value to help people, and I have a…I don’t want a harem of women or anything, I want to live the penultimate life style, right. So it would be the lifestyle where I can literally go out get any spot, I’ll know a lot of people there, I’ll spend whatever I want to spend that night, and I’ll have… Like I said it’s quite good because I don’t really talk about the girls whose hook up you’re going to have, whatever happens I will never ever be short of girls again in my entire life. I’ll help girls as well.
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: People talk about pulling nines and pulling tens and the truth is like yes I want to do that, I want to do that with more frequency. But it’s not a question of whether or not I can do that, it’s more a question of where I do it, with who, and the circumstance surrounding it, and I guess like the quality of that girl. Because the girl can be nine in looks but not so much in mentality. And I’m searching for those types of girls and I’m glad that I have the game to be able to get them.
Angel: Yeah and just like a side thing to that when we were talking about earlier, is when you get this part of your life handled it really allows you to build the other aspect of your life. You know you’ve been talking about your lifestyle, and your wealth and all the other aspects of your life you’re working on now. And you’re building and you’re aspiring to. And as part of that as the back drop to that, once we’ve kind of like solved and got over our own securities in the dating area of our world and got satisfied with that aspect of our life. Then as you free this up to pursue all of these other things that we really want in our life.
Mr. M: Yeah not only that I mean what I found was that…and this maybe in particular to myself and Braddock. But because we did so much research into social circle mastery in the game, I mean looking at social circle mastery, social circle mastery is the study…I mean I’m not even supposed to be promoting this right now because we’re stopping the seminars because we get, we don’t find a need to teach it anymore. I mean even if it doesn’t economically pay as well boot camps do either, so we don’t run it very much anymore.
Angel: Right.
Mr. M: Right, but because we spend so long in that I learned how to build social connections, I learned really, really powerful things about influence, and a likeability, and of a way that you’re operate in a social sphere. And I just…I get it. I’m so comfortable in that environment, in that sphere, and it makes my life…there’s no question in my head when I’m in social situations I wouldn’t need to happen about who I am, about my position in the sphere, about why people react in certain ways. Like I literally…it’s not like seeing the matrix, it’s like seeing the matrix within yourself. Don’t let me get into a rant about that. But what I’m saying is you take those skills and you bring them to other areas of your life. So for example, having built socially network I have access to high ended celebrity social circles in London, but you build and know how to do that…and some of it is a little bit Machiavellian but in the end it all comes down to your integrity and your reputation, and the fact that people trust you and the fact that you don’t want to and you can’t trick people into believing you’re a good person unless you are actually a good person.
So that’s so weird. We talk about a concept called insight in social circle mastery, which means that Angel if you met someone and…have you ever met someone and you you start talking to him but for some reason your body goes I don’t trust this guy.
Angel: Yeah sure of course.
Mr. M: That’s the power of what we call insight right. Insight can change over time, but being able to control that, being able to understand how that…and that’s only one of the aspects of what we discovered in our research in social circle mastery. But all that stuff really enhanced out life and I found a mentor that I’m now using. And even in things like…we’re talking about SEO before, search engine optimization. Even in terms of networking and branching out, being able to use social circle mastery to find the people in my industry who I need to be able to do that is priceless, like absolutely priceless. And the same thing with attraction and the other sort of topics in seduction that I’ve published. They all have a spin off effect that includes my life immensely in other areas.
So as far be it that the effect is simply just the effect of women, it has been of the contrary an effect on my entire life. Which is in all aspects of my life, which is something that I am internally grateful for.
Angel: Yeah and exactly the same from here, although I haven’t worked in the social circle stuff anywhere as near as much as you have, so I’m sure you’ve got a lot more out of that. I’m gonna start winding this up now but I kind of want to leave with…you’ve spoken about…before we were talking about wanting to give back and things like that and you touched on it a little bit during this interview as well. And I wanted to talk about like on the boot camps, I know back when I was training now and again you’d have a student that was a lot more challenging, and it would take a lot more to kind of help them through what they were dealing with. So I’d like to finish off with you kind of you talking about one of your most challenging students and like how you got around those challenges in helping him?
Mr. M: Sure, let me think, there’s been some challenges in the past, there’s been two guys in wheelchairs.
Angel: That is kind of different.
Mr. M: There are guys which just beginning the inner game which is really, really interesting, really horrible players, very, very hard to deal with. As much as I…I’d much prefer someone with a bad physical side than with a really cocked up inner game. It’s a lot harder to deal with. I mean like I had literally on boot camp come across guys who cried because I brought out repressed memories. It’s so weird Angel that you become like a psychologist to some degree in boot camp. If you really do everything and the reasons…helping someone’s best self in coming out is often things that they can’t see. So we as an instructor has to be trained to see, you know. And it takes a lot of…I say this all the time to my instructors that are training now. I train I think I trained almost 50 percent of the new Love Systems instructors. But I say you have to be able to look into the world from the perspective of the person that you’re teaching and to be able to see the things that are going wrong. Because every action is a result of a feeling or an emotion, something that happened inside. Every negative reaction or a reaction that decreased attraction is a result of that. And it’s our job to actually find those. And the inner game is layers and layers of stuff that you just have to go through to discover that.
When I have to put myself into their shoes and start asking questions, start feeling and acting and talking like the person so that I can view their world more logically, feel exactly what they are feeling to be able to fix them. It’s great because it’s given to me the skill of empathy and of understanding someone else’s point of view and being able to fix that. But man it’s hard. So let me think, to get back to your question. Toughest student would probably be a 60 year old dude, a pretty messed up inner game. I mean it wasn’t that bad but you know really old guy and…no 60 wasn’t that old I’ve had older. But he was 60 and he just went through a rough divorce and literally took the boot camp, I don’t think he’d had any advice, his friend literally sent him there.
Oh, oh wait I just thought of a tougher guy. These two…oh god this was horrible. This was with my playboy mansion boot camp, right. Which is supposed to be an awesome time for me, this boot camp interestingly enough was the one where Bobby Rio from TSB magazine actually tracked me and followed me around and saw my instructor skills and then ranked me as one of the top pickup artists of the world. But the most challenging was the student…the student was a multi millionaire right now follow me here. So the multi millionaire who one year ago…him and his friend were multi millionaires one year ago walked across the street and got hit by a truck. They were literally dragged along the ground, like fish pulled along by boats. Tore up their faces, tore up their arms, they couldn’t walk properly. One of them his eyes were all fucked up, and was blind like lost three quarters of their vision. And have you ever seen that movie born on the fourth of July with…
Angel: Tom Cruise.
Mr. M: You know when he comes out of Vietnam and he’s just in that destructive mental state.
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: And he goes in the booth…just crazy destructive mental state. Now these guys were not only in that destructive mental state but was in that state spoiled, because they were filthy rich there was sort of this like arrogance. And physically fucked up as well. We’re at the playboy mansion you know. And I mean like wow that was tough.
But when that happens you have to appreciate that…the place where the student is coming from, you know like put yourself into their shoes. And the realization is that there are ways which I knew students could think in order for that person to be naturally attractive to women. But for them to get to point Z, there are numerous ones along the way which often there are barriers, psychological barriers, emotional barriers and barriers which are being reinforced by years of reference experiences. Where the brain is wired to this, what you call it…a traumatic event, right. Which stops them from getting the challenges that I need to get them at before I can release them onto girls and know that they’re going to be physically attractive.
My goal there is not necessarily to get laid but to give them the tools to get laid. Any Tom, Dick or Harry on a lucky night is going to get laid, it happened at boot camp. It really pisses me off actually when dating coaches take the credit for some guy who got laid. It’s not about getting laid on boot camp, it’s about generally feeling what’s successful and being able to get the result after it as well. But this was different, man I’ve spent…I mean if the boys felt so sorry for me because I basically spent the entire night up at the Playboy Mansion with the students except for doing demos for Bobby Rio and the guy from HB magazine. Doing two demos for them which went really well, I also hooked up with a pretty hot playmate. But that literally was like a 25 minute demo. And the rest of the time I spend with these guys. When a guy needs your help especially like that, as the lead instructor it’s my job to help him.
So I spent most of the night with him talking though the inner game, trying to get them to open even, trying to get them to open enough of space in their mind. Trying to get them to understand the mentality they need, working though the boundaries. And as I said before maybe ten minutes doing that, for me is simply exhausting, I have to put myself into the shoes of the student. Spending a whole night. By the end of the night I was literally, I wasn’t in tears but I was really upset because I hadn’t got…you know this was my first time ever at the Playboy Mansion, I was really excited, I virtually spent all night with helping two guys who really needed my help. And Savoy put his hand on my shoulder when I came back to base camp and he was like, good job next time we’re at the Playboy Mansion I’ll fly you over, or I’ll invite you. He hasn’t come through with that so fuck him.
But those were tough students. And what happened was I saw them they both got phone numbers that night and one of them isolated a girl and I think he was making out with her.
Angel: Ah that’s an awesome ending.
Mr. M: Well yeah but the effects…I mean that’s not the ending it’s the beginning right?
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: What should happen after the boot camp and…I got in touch with them afterwards and you know they said Love Systems has a no questions asked money back guarantee policy. So they literally could have asked for a refund at any time, even after the boot camp finished right. And they knew this and they sent me an email saying look thank you so much, we appreciate how much effort you put in and we know…it’s like you know how you have the four stages of learning like conscious, unconscious, your confident…
Angel: Yeah.
Mr. M: Well they were unconsciously incompetent, and came out consciously incompetent and going toward conscious incompetent, right. Which for guys who came from such a dark place, for me having only 15 hours with them, including my seminar time.
Angel: That’s an awesome story and it’s pretty inspiring. You know even guys in what we would consider as like you say having gone through such traumatic experiences can start to recover from that and you can help them move on.
So Mr. M thanks for the interview today it’s been awesome catching up with you. And this has been some great stuff in it, so I’m looking forward to putting this up on the site.
I’ll let you get on with your day now I’m sure you have other stuff to do. It’s night time here so time for me to go out. But I look forward to catching up with you again.
Mr. M: Great yes, good luck with your dating skills review I love what you guys are doing and you guys deliver a lot of really great content to your users. And if you ever need for me to come on and do another interview again then let me know and we’ll get the Skype issue sorted out.
Angel: Yeah definitely.
Mr. M: And we’ll go from there.
Angel: Alright awesome. Well like I said it’s been awesome catching up with you.
Read more information about the recent book release with "Review of The Ultimate Guide to Text and Phone Game".