Ep. #25 It's Unexciting Fundamental Skills Not Flashy Techniques that Work with Women

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DJ Fuji Interview

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DJ Fuji Bio The Tao of DJ Fuji Company
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In this interview with DJ Fuji we talk about how "flashy" techniques may look exciting, but often don't deliver results. For anyone struggling with the "learning process" this is a great interview to reset your ideas of what you should be focusing on learning.
  • What are the 'fundamental social skills' you need to attract and date the women you are interested in. (1:20).
  • How to know what you need to study first is - basic fundamentals or more specific techniques? (3:48).
  • Men take between 6 months and 3 years to become successful with women. How to take the 6 month shortcut (5:00).
  • Most men who start studying this drop out. How much drive do you need to become the successful guy with women? (7:30).
  • Why it's great for you that most men drop out and how to judge your 'drive' based on your fitness and career life (8:30).
  • Have you hit bottom? Have you gone through enough pain to get the drive to become the best? Anecdotal evidence about the men who get most successful studying dating and social skills (9:30).
  • The value of pain - how avoiding pain can sabotage your success and the ideal way to study "getting better with women" (11:10).
  • Are you a pain or pleasure responder? What will keep you on the ball to get your dating life fixed permanently? (13:10).
  • The importance of accountability and how to 'hack your life' to reinforce accountability (15:20).
  • A fatal mistake - losing sight of the 'right goal' or not setting the right goal. Men who succeed focus on... (17:00).
  • The very first basic skills you should focus on mastering first (18:20).
  • You can't fool women - you have to BE attractive. But how? (19:00).
  • "Gym Talk". What really can make a difference to the women you attract from improving your health and fitness (22:00).
  • A "Building Resources" perspective on how to attract more women and live a better life (22:00).
  • Talking about "Self Discipline". Is it essential to getting results? How to use it? Do you have to be militant with yourself? (25:00).
  • The three big things DJ Fuji recommends you start with to get results quickly (28:30).
Getting attraction in an interaction is not saying or doing, it’s being attractive.-DJ Fuji
Give some love to DJ Fuji on Twitter to thank him for the advice in this interview.
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Books, Courses and Training from DJ Fuji

Full Text Transcript of the Interview

[Angel Donovan]: Hey there, this is Angel Donovan with another episode of Dating Skills Podcast. Today we have DJ Fuji from Tao of DJ Fuji. And DJ Fuji has a bit of a different take on the whole world of dating skills and then how to teach them in particular, and a lot of his clients tend to be guys who are like struggling, they haven’t had any girlfriends in the past, so it’s not like they want to have really, really crazy high ambitions of like threesomes or out-of-world stuff there. What they just want to get is from somewhere where they haven’t had much of a dating life before to where they’re having a great dating life. DJ, great to have you here.

[DJ Fuji]: Thank you, man. Glad to be here.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool. So let’ just jump straight into it. I know that one of the things that you really have kind of a different take on is you look at fundamentals versus a lot of the kind of techniques that we see talked about by a lot of the gurus. Could you outline like what are fundamentals? What are you talking about when you say fundamentals?

[DJ Fuji]: Well, primarily I think the main emphasis that I teach is, and some other techniques are the fundamental techniques, but it’s more focusing, like if we, say, take a look at a sport like basketball, focusing more on the dribbling, the footwork, the passing, the shooting, versus the half-court shot, versus the skyhook shot, versus the flashy things that they look really cool but they don’t actually win games. So, when you’re talking about dating, the fundamentals are things like body language, things like confidence, things like eye contact, the things like physical contact, the ability to hold the conversation. Now, the ability to hold the conversation, everyone seems to think that, like most people want to believe they can do that, but it’s actually a more difficult thing than most people realize, and that’s when you get guys that freeze up, they don’t know what to say. That comes down to just social skills, and in particular in a cold approach scenario, particularly advanced social skills in order to keep a conversation going with someone who’s probably nervous talking to you and being able to continue to do that. So those types of things, while they’re not sexy necessarily in a flashy sales-page-type way, those are things that actually get you real-world results, so that’s what I focus on.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, right. So, this doesn’t tend like, as you say, when people read about it and stuff, like holding a conversation, it doesn’t sound really like exciting or something you want to learn.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: And it’s not really very motivating. But what I like about what you say is that it’s really fundamentally important, like it’s really the first step. If you can’t hold a conversation, then you can’t do anything else afterwards, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it’s just like the basketball analogy of passing or shooting, and if you can’t do those basic things, then it doesn’t matter how good your skyhook shot is because what ultimately wins games, and in this case what ultimately gets you results, are those baseline fundamentals, and you have to have them because everything else builds upon those fundamentals.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so for guys listening to this who may have this problem but maybe they’re not so aware of it or sometimes we try to tell ourselves we don’t have this basic problem, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Sure.

[Angel Donovan]: We want to kind of study more advanced stuff. What would you say like—how would you know if this is like the main thing you’re falling down on and you really need to focus on this fundamental before like getting into anything more complicated?

[DJ Fuji]: I would say the majority of people that get into this really need to start with the fundamentals. If you got into this and you weren’t particularly naturally talented or you didn’t kind of pick this up and run with it, like if you got into this, you read a few lines, you went out and you instantly started getting dates, then your fundamentals are probably pretty strong because that’s what’s carrying you.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[DJ Fuji]: But if you’re getting into this and you’re struggling a little bit, if you run out of things to say often, if you don’t know how to escalate, let’s say you go on a date with a girl or even you’re cold approaching or you’re talking to a woman and you don’t know how to touch her or you’re not sure how or when to kiss her, or you don’t know what to do next, or you’re kind of nervous and you don’t know what to say, your-mind-goes-blank-type things, if you’re experiencing those, then those are symptoms of just kind of a lack of fundamentals. And there’s nothing to be ashamed of with the fundamentals because I’ll be the first to tell you that I was one of the worst guys ever with the fundamentals. I started with nothing. I started with such a lack of social skills that at 20 years old I’d never held a girl’s hand, much less date, sex or anything else. I would’ve been happy just to have held a girl’s hand. So I started from nothing, but what that allows me to do is know where guys are. When I train, I know exactly where they are in that path and what they need to do to get good.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so for a guy who’s got this stumbling block of just talking, basically maintaining a conversation, what are the first steps and how long does it take him to get over that would you say normally?

[DJ Fuji]: It really depends on where he’s starting because some guys are starting and they’re kind of nervous and they run out of things to say, and they’re starting but they’re fast learners or maybe they started and they have other things going for them in their lives and they’re naturally funny, they’re just kind of nervous. For them, they have to get over the nerves. For, say, where I started, I had the nerves but I also had, I didn’t know how to make a conversation. I just didn’t know how to carry a conversation even with guys. I didn’t obviously know how to be funny. I didn’t know any of that stuff. So there were so many more concepts to learn that the learning curve was going to be different.

I’d say from most guys who pick up the fundamentals, you’re talking somewhere between on the low end of six months to a year, on the high end of maybe two or three years. And really that may sound like a lot, but it’s pretty reasonable when you factor in that what you’re really doing here is you’re taking 20 to 30 years of social skill development and you’re cramming it into a year or two, and that’s why you have to be dedicated to it. But if you think about it, if you could do that with anything else, that would be absolutely amazing. And even when we do it here, sometimes you look at the difficulty of what you’re trying to do and the complexity and you’re like, that’s amazing, you know, 30 years of experience into two years and you’re right back as if you’ve been doing this for 30 years.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. I mean, it sounds like kind of crazy to say like maintaining a conversation is hard, but when you put it into that perspective, then you can see that people who have been shy and you haven’t been someone who’s been like talking with people a lot, then you just lack so much of that experience. So that sounds kind of a long time which is de-motivating though, two to three years. Where are those kind of guys starting from they have to work for that long, and is there a difference in the way the guys learn which is making the difference to how long they learn? So are they learning in a way that’s holding them back in some ways, which is making it this two- to three-year job?

[DJ Fuji]: I would say those are rates based on a guy putting in the necessary effort, a guy getting good coaching, a guy having good direction. Without those things, like if a guy kind of just, he doesn’t really put a lot into it or he kind of does it halfway or he’s not really disciplined or dedicated, or he doesn’t have the coaching, he doesn’t have the drive, or maybe he doesn’t have the direction, those two, three years end up being five, six, 10 years.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[DJ Fuji]: Most of the time they don’t even get that far because guys get frustrated and they drop out. And if you look at any group of guys that are trying to get good at this, whether they’re a local support group, a meet-up group or anything like that, you’re going to see a lot of people drop out, and it’s just because it’s so hard to put all of those things together if you don’t have that direction, that drive, that discipline, and so a lot… I mean, I know Angel that you work a little bit in fitness too, and the same thing, you see people that join the gym in January, and what happens by March? The gym’s empty, and in two short months all these people that had these resolutions now completely drop the ball on that. And I think a lot of people look at learning dating and they’re the like, oh, so many people drop out. Well, that’s the same thing no matter what you do. Anytime you want to do something big, you want to accomplish something big, you have big goals, you’re going to have most of the people drop out, and it’s sad but it’s true. The great thing is that it means that if you are disciplined, you are dedicated to that, you really want this, then you can do it because you don’t have that much competition. All you have to do is not drop out when everyone else is dropping out. You’ve got to push a little bit harder and you’ve got to push yourself and have that discipline, you have to make sure you have that direction, know where you’re going, have that good coaching and stuff, and you can do it. And I think that’s the same in business, it’s the same in sports, it’s the same in fitness, and it’s the same in dating.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. And this is interesting stuff, and I want to do a little segue here because we’re talking about motivation and willpower, right? Basically, like I want to achieve a goal in my life and I’ve got this much force and energy to get it done and to be persistent no matter the failures, and obviously it’s going to be hard at the beginning, it’s not going to be so much fun, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: Do you think this is just related to something that you can basically tell yourself? I can listen to this podcast and I can say, “Okay, this is the right thing to do. I’m going to be super-motivated about this and I’m going to stick to it for six months,” or like, “I know this is getting a bit advanced here, but I kind of think it’s important.” Or do you think like there are underlying other factors that help you to basically put in that required force and keep up with it over time? Now, I know you talked a bit about lifestyle coaching, so I’m thinking a bit along those lines. And what kind of supports you to keep that level of motivation up and to actually push through and persist where others give up?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, great, great question. Actually I did a ton of research into this because I wanted to know why so many guys give up on this and on everything, why people give up so quickly, and I did a ton of research. And that’s what one of my talks in London actually was about. It was about hacking motivation because a lot of people think motivation is something that like you just, oh, you summon it up from your stomach or your core and you just have it. Well, what people don’t realize is motivation is actually a finite resource. It’s something that like you don’t have an unlimited amount of motivation. It just doesn’t work that way. It’s a finite resource coming primarily from the prefrontal cortex and, unfortunately, that part of the brain is also responsible for a lot of other things. So if you’re tired, you notice your motivation kind of goes out the window. If you’re hungry, your blood sugar is low, kind of goes out the window.

So, interestingly enough, the sense of motivation, it comes from a variety of factors but a lot of times you have to really understand what’s causing that to really gauge what you have to work with. And so for a lot of us and especially for me, you will notice that the guys that get really good at this are oftentimes guys that were the most troubled growing up or they had the most troubles going through this, the guys that as my friend Future says, they come from a very dark place. And I think you have to hit rock bottom in this. You have to hit rock bottom and be so desperate that you make a vow to yourself that I will do everything it takes to accomplish this, to make this happen, to change my life, before you make a drastic move like that.

Because I always tell my guys, who fights for the scrap of meat on the ground, the dog that’s starving or the dog that just ate dog food? It’s always the starving dog. And the unfortunate truth is that if you don’t hit rock bottom, a lot of times it’s difficult to summon that kind of motivation, that kind of extreme discipline necessary to be the best. And I think that occurs across the board, no matter if you’re talking about dating or sports or anything else. You kind of have to hit rock bottom. You have to hit that point where you’re like, “I will do whatever it takes,” if you want to be the best, if you want to accomplish big things in this.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, and I like how you bring up pain versus reward, right, because all those psychological studies tell us that pain is a much greater motivator than reward is, so in this case getting success with a girl. So as you mentioned, hitting bottom, basically hitting that like huge amount of pain and being a driver, and I’ve seen that as well across the community and with a lot of men as being kind of the starting point for men to actually change. But how’d you get that pain? I just want to give you a short anecdote. Like one of my buddies, when we were learning about girls and so on, I remember one of the things he used to do was he used to punish himself when something went wrong and basically just to push it in his own face so he didn’t forget it. Because I think one of the things we do is like when something doesn’t go right we try to lessen the pain, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Sure.

[Angel Donovan]: It’s just a psychological thing. And in this case, when you’re talking about motivation, it helps in the short term because you don’t feel so bad, but over the long term you don’t get this pain that’s going to actually thrust you into learning and being really motivated. So what he used to do, like one example was he made some mistakes with a girl he was really interested in and he kind of blew it on the third date, and it was really raining hard that night and he was about an hour away from his place on 3rd and he walked home in the rain, in the cold, and like a pretty nasty experience for him, and he just kind of ruminated over the night and thought like these things he did wrong and these things, “I wasn’t working on it,” and making sure that he remembered those things. And he’s one of the guys that I saw get better pretty quickly, because he basically refused to make the same mistakes twice and he refused to avoid any of the kind of pain. He just pushed it in his own face so it wouldn’t happen again.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think with the pain-and-pleasure-type thing, you can use both of those things, and I think a lot of people will be motivated more by one thing than the other. That’s what will drive them. And therefore you can’t take one thing, like some people respond better to pain, some people respond better to pleasure, and so you have to customize it to whatever they respond to, because if you do the wrong one people oftentimes shut down or it’s just ineffective. If you go to the pleasure site and they’re not particularly motivated by that, then it just is ineffective and conversely the people just will shut down.

So I think a big part actually of coaching that people don’t realize is that, especially when you talk about long-term coaching, and I’ve seen this because my friends, we talked about my friends Dan and Mike, and something they have seen too because Mike does all kinds of coaching is when you look at what keeps people on the ball, one of the bigger things in coaching, one of the biggest things that makes coaching effective, is the absolute accountability. And I think we’ve seen that with entrepreneurism and we see it with the accountability coaches, what the accountability partners and entrepreneurs have, and I’m sure you’re familiar with that, or the mastermind group, so it’s really just an accountability group. And it’s becoming something that we realize in coaching, a big, big part of the coaching is someone holding you accountable. And I think with fitness, I think even more sometimes than the technique, because there are a lot of personal trainers that don’t have good technique in terms of personal training but they get results because they force people to be accountable. And I think that’s a big, big thing because the hardest part about fitness, the hardest part about dating, the hardest part about any kind of thing like this is pushing in spite of, “I don’t want to do it,” and showing up and actually getting out there.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. Totally. So this links back to what you’ve been saying about discipline and it takes a lot of discipline to get through this, and obviously one of the great discipline enforcers is accountability. For people who aren’t get any coaching, have you have got any hacks that they could use to keep themselves more accountable?

[DJ Fuji]: Well, coaching I would say by far is the most effective.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Mm-hmm.

[DJ Fuji]: Minus that, I would say making sure you’re always writing everything down, making sure like, every time you go out I have my guys write field reports. And they don’t even post them, just write them for yourself, because not only does that highlight the things you’re doing correctly and the things you need improvement on, but it keeps you accountable for the things that you do. So things like having a vision board, you put a corkboard and you cut out pictures of what you want to accomplish, who you want to become, all these things that you want to maybe acquire or accomplish, and you pin it to your corkboard and you put it in a place where you see it every day, and it reminds you of what you’re working towards, especially with something as kind of long term as something like developing social skills or dating.

And a lot of times you lose sight of the forest because you’re looking at the trees, and you forget what you’re really working towards. You think, “Oh, it’s really important that I get this one girl,” or “It’s really important that I pull tonight or I get a number,” and you forget that what you’re really working for is a lifestyle. It’s change, it’s improvement, it’s becoming the best version of you. It’s not about, “Oh, can I get three numbers tonight?” Now, maybe that’s part of the process, but when you lose sight of the entire goal and you started thinking about notches or numbers or the little things, then all of a sudden you realize several years have passed and you haven’t gotten any better because you’re looking too short term.

[Angel Donovan]: Totally, totally. That’s a good point, so. So some of the other areas you were talking about with fundamentals were body language, eye contact and physical contact. When do they become important? So we said maintaining a conversation is kind of your first stop. What would you say guys should focus on next?

[DJ Fuji]: You know, it’s funny because obviously it depends on who the guy is, but I would say your presence, your body language, and kind of overarchingly your confidence and those types of things. Your nonverbals though, from a perspective of when they’re important in interaction, actually occur, as I’m sure you know this, before the conversation ever starts.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[DJ Fuji]: And I think we’ve progressed beyond the idea of, oh, you can learn a line and get any woman, and I think we kind of understand that at this point, but I think a lot of things people still aren’t quite getting is that what gets you attraction in an interaction is not saying or doing something, it’s being attractive, because you just can’t fool people that well. I don’t care how good of an actor you are. You can’t fool people by trying to do attraction when you aren’t attractive, because people are way too good at seeing right through that. You have to be attractive, which means on a physical level you have to make sure you’re going to the gym. You have to make sure that you’re paying attention to your fashion, to your grooming. You have to be doing things with your life other than just this and other than playing video games. You have to be taking care of your financial life. Holistically, you have to be an attractive person, because nobody’s that good of an actor. People see right through that.

And I think it’s such a vague concept but at the same time it’s such an abstract concept that people are like, “Oh, I can just learn a few lines or I can learn these techniques.” And you can, it’s just people see through those, and it’s like thinking that I can take out Michael Jordan because I developed one hook shot. Like Michael Jordan’s not that basic that I can take him out with a hook shot. If it was, he wouldn’t be Michael Jordan. You’re going to need a little bit more than that to take a guy like that out.

And when you focus on everything as a holistic growth thing, when you focus on being attractive, sure it’s a longer journey. I’m not going to lie about that. It’s a journey that really is going to span your lifetime and it’s a journey that isn’t really going to stop. It’s going to start here and it’s going to keep going for as long as you live. But it’s something that’s so much more rewarding than just learning a line. It’s something that’s so much more life-changing than just learning a technique. Because it starts to affect your friendships, obviously your dating, your job, your social life, your financial life across the board. You become a different person. You become a better person. And I think when people see the difference and the change in who they can become, that’s so much bigger than just being better at dating.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, totally, and these things are all related as we spoke about before. I guess to some guys this could sound overwhelming, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Because in today’s environment or today’s world, right, there’s a lot of stuff going on in our lives. We’ve got our careers, we’ve got our relationships, maybe we’ve got our health goals like fitness and so on and all sorts of pressures. So is there one area, like I’m kind of thinking that you talked about going to the gym, do you have any perspective on how important it is to kind of start there? What’s your opinion? I know you’re focused yourself.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, I like the idea of starting, one, immediately, and two, with kind of in the major areas of your life.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[DJ Fuji]: So the gym is something that I like because especially if you’re outside of the realm of what’s considered attractive in terms of your physique, right? So going from, say, average physique to defined abs makes very little difference in terms of like what’s actually going to happen in dating, right?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[DJ Fuji]: Unless you’re going out and you’re meeting women at the pool, it’s not really… You’re going to get diminishing returns. Where it’s going to be a big deal is if you’re like 50 pounds overweight. It’s going to make big, big difference once you start to lose that. So my thing is look for the areas in which you’re hurting the most.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[DJ Fuji]: So let’s say you have 11% body fat but you can’t afford to buy lunch tomorrow, right? Then focus more on getting your financial life together versus cutting to 9% body fat and maybe having your abs show because you have under 10%, right? So my thing is look for the areas in which you need the most help and then improve those areas the most, because those are the areas that you’re going to get the biggest gains right off the bat.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Would you say that any of these things could be holding… Because I’ve met people in the past through friends who would focus on learning dating skills, kind of forgetting about the other girls in their life, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: And one of the things I saw is that sometimes these people just plateaued and stalled because this other part of their life was holding them back, but they would kind of ignore it and they’d let things go on. So take the money problem for example, not having the finances to go to the places where you want to meet the right women and things like that or just go on a nice date with a girl that you’ve met and not feel kind of like stressed out about it because you don’t know if you’ve got the money to deal with it and always having to think of ways around that. What’s kind of your perspective on that?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, I mean my philosophy is you should be an attractive person overall. And so like you said, that kind of ties in to figure out where your biggest weaknesses are. And in terms of guys focusing very heavily on learning dating, it kind of really depends on where you are in dating. For me, I had to focus everything on dating. But you also have to remember that I came from… You know, I did four years in the Marine Corps, and then after that I was fortunate enough to step into basically a six-figure computer job because of my prior training. So I had the finances nailed already. I had a lot of that stuff, the career stuff, already handled, so I could sacrifice a little bit on the career end and I could say, “Hey, let me take all of this focus I’ve been putting on career, let me kind of put that on hold a little bit and put that extra resource towards the dating side because I’m so, so deficient in the social skills arena.

And I needed to do that. I couldn’t have halfway that. I couldn’t say, “Oh, well, I’ll just go halfway on the dating and I’ll keep doing the career.” My career was as good as it was going to get in terms of improving my dating life. Like I couldn’t have made my career any better to improve my dating life more. What I needed to do was to take those resources and devote them to the biggest hole, and the biggest hole at that point was the confidence, the body language, the tonality, the social skills, the conversation ability. Like I needed to do that, and that made the biggest difference in my development.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, I like how you position it as resources, right, basically things that you can use to get the other goals done in your life once you’ve achieved one. So if you reduce your weight by 50 pounds, your head’s feeling clearer, you have more energy, people are responding to you better, and now you can apply that to your career, you can apply that to dating girls, you can apply it to other areas. And it’s the same way with your financial resources as you pointed out, right? Once you’ve increase that, you can start getting that to help you in other areas. So I think that’s something that a lot of people neglect, and when they’re kind of thinking about like dating skills, maybe one of the things that kind of slows them down is they don’t have like a builder resource, like build a skill rather than go out and have a good result tonight, right?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, so like maybe it’s going back to being focused on the reward too much. But you go out and maybe you had a really horrible night, but you learn something that’s way more important sometimes, and it wasn’t much fun but it can really make the difference and maybe build a skill from that night mostly.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah. I always tell guys that you’re here for one reason and one reason only, and that is not to have fun. If we have fun in the process, awesome. And I’d like to have fun in the process, but sometimes, when you do what’s necessary, whether it’s work, the gym or anything else, sometimes it’s not fun, and sometimes you’ve got to sacrifice fun in order to get better. And that’s what we’re here for.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. I often find it works that way in the beginning and then it gets more fun as it goes on with anything you’re doing…

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, absolutely.

[Angel Donovan]: …as you get more comfortable with it. Now, I know you’re huge on discipline, and now I kind of know why, because of your military background. [Laughs]

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: And you’re friends with Future, so that kind of like makes sense.

[DJ Fuji]: Well, Future and I actually served in the Marine Corps together.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh wow, I didn’t know that.

[DJ Fuji]: Weirdly enough, we were in the same unit. It was bizarre. And it was kind of a brother unit, so it wasn’t like I was working right next to him, but we definitely knew who each other were except neither of us were anything other than Marines at that point.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. That's so weird. Cool. So we’ve about five minutes left here. I want to focus on maybe some like takeaways for the guys, like some tips on somebody’s fundamental areas. So we talked a lot about discipline, I think, but is there anything concrete that they can start doing today in terms of body language, eye contact and physical contact, the kind of the big things that you see that they can do something specific and it will help in that area?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah, so starting out with eye contact, a big, big thing is just start making eye contact with everyone you walk by. Because chances are, if you’re listening to this, you walk by people all the time at the office, on campus, everywhere, and most people don’t make eye contact because it’s kind of awkward. If you force that though, you get a lot more comfortable, so force it. When you make eye contact just smile and say hello. And it’s such a simple thing and you’ll see naturals do it all the time, and it seems so simple but it’s a lot harder when you’re not used to it. And when you get used to it, it makes it that much easier to start conversations and keep conversations going, to keep eye contact while you’re in a conversation, and so on and so forth.

On the conversation side, what I would say is make conversations with everyone around you. And it’ll seem silly at first because you’d be talking to a 70-year-old grandmother in the grocery store in front of you and you’ll be making small talk with her and it’ll seems so silly in that moment, but in the larger picture you’re building social skills and it doesn’t matter at that point whether you’re building with a 70-year-old grandmother or a 21-year-old model, because social skills are social skills and where most people are at that point, the faster and the more experience you get with that, the faster your overall development is going to be.

[Angel Donovan]: Those are excellent tips. I’m pleased. I’m behind those. And I remember my first experiences with eye contact I was doing that, you know, when I first started out. And it’s amazing how quick… Well, I remember how uncomfortable and kind of strange it feels, right? As you were saying.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: But you know, very quickly it just becomes completely normal. And the other thing I say about the eye contact thing is you create opportunities, because if you just like maintain eye contact with people as you’re walking past or in a café or wherever and you smile at them, sometimes they’ll smile back or even they’ll say hello, right, and sometimes it could be a cute girl or whatever, or maybe it’ll just be a potential new like social conversation that you’re going to get something out of that or maybe it’s a new friend. So that simple one little eye contact thing is actually huge.

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah. I think all of these things, really, if you’d look at all the different individual techniques, I’d say 90% of them contribute to all one cause, and that cause, aside from just you being overall a more attractive person, that cause is you being more confident. And confidence is so hard to teach just in and of itself that we have to break it down into these little things that all contribute to you ultimately becoming more confident.

[Angel Donovan]: Great, great. Awesome. Okay, so I’m going to wrap this up and DJ, have you got anything to say about anything that’s going on with you at the moment, anything you’re working on? I know you said something about a few products you have coming out?

[DJ Fuji]: Yeah. I’m a big fan of action, so the main products that are coming out are going to be things geared around action. I’ve got a training system based on flashcards, so you don’t just read a book and put it down and say we’re good. You actually go through the flashcards and it teaches you things like conversation, it teaches you things like frame control, how to handle things and how to steer conversations. So that’ll all be on the website, so feel free to take a look and tell me what you guys think on that.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent, excellent. Well, DJ Fuji, it’s been a great conversation with you today and thanks for all the advice for the guys, and look forward to catching up with you soon, man.

[DJ Fuji]: Thank you, man. Likewise.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool.

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