A debate has been going on for a long time in "dating advice for men" circles: when talking to women, should you use a direct method (just tell her you like her and take it from there) or an indirect way (just ask a neutral question and tell stories first)?

Is it better to be natural, focus on having fun and attract her with your cool vibe? (the way suggested by Real Social Dynamics, Paul Janka, Vin DiCarlo, Zan Perrion, Charisma Arts, etc)

Or should you have a strict game plan to follow and strategize every step of the way? (the way suggested by Love Systems, Venusian Arts, Mehow, etc)

At DatingSkillsReview.com, we have an informed opinion on the matter, because we have reviewed a lot of the products out there (and have been in the game for years ourselves). We believe some key facts have been missing from the debate so far.

First, you need to separate the effectiveness in learning from the effectiveness in applying the advice.

1. Learning the Attraction Skills

A very striking fact becomes obvious when you review tens of attraction products in a row, as we do: the "indirect” methods, generally speaking, have A LOT more information to offer than the direct ones.

It is not rare, for instance, for us to watch a 6 hours “direct” DVD product and end up with 5 or 6 pages of notes we can use for reviewing. An “indirect” product of roughly the same length will get you 20 or 30 pages or more.

The difference is huge and no matter the format (ebook, audio CDs, DVDs) I have seen this apply consistently. The “indirect” products just pack more bang for your buck.

If you think about it, it makes sense: because of the more scripted, controlling approach of most indirect methods, there is a constant analysis going on.

You are carefully monitoring the woman you are talking to, as well as her friends and the whole venue, and fine-tuning your own moves and conversation in real-time based on what is happening.

This leads to literally hundreds of micro observations, tips and strategies that are quite simply not included in any direct method.

Indeed, the direct way, by definition, suggest that worrying about details is largely a waste of time. It focuses on projecting a fun vibe and winning girls over by projecting the right personality. Therefore details are much less covered in direct products.

2. Applying the Attraction Skills

So, are we saying indirect methods are more efficient than direct ones? Well, not exactly.

I do believe that indirect methods are, on paper, more efficient. Simply because having a game plan and specific steps to follow makes you more consistent and more driven.

However, there are a couple of cons to the indirect way:

First, it’s harder to learn. A lot more work and a lot more to remember. This can feel overwhelming and causes many guys to give up.

Second, it gets you more “in your head”. Many beginners are more uncomfortable and awkward when trying the indirect way, because they have to focus on the conversation PLUS all the techniques to apply. Again, this does not help you to keep going in those first few months in the game.

Third, it takes the fun out of interactions. Because it is more scripted, being social can feel like a repetition of the same steps, over and over again.

This is why I said indirect is better “on paper”. I do believe an indirect “master” would win against a direct “master”, in a controlled lab competition. However, we don’t live in a controlled lab. For most guys, what they want is just to have fun and get girls. They want to get better fast and start having fun.

Also, in many ways the direct way is a superior approach. Less information doesn’t mean it is less profound. The direct way is closer to the way “naturals” (guys who have never studied this stuff) think and act. It strips out most of the trivia. It gets you focused on the core of what makes a man naturally dominant and attractive. It is also way more fun to do.

The reality is that most of the guys who get good eventually use a “natural” approach. There is a point where you get enough abundance, and using a rigid way to get women becomes boring. You don’t need to anymore. You start to have fun doing whatever the hell you want.

Ironically, many of the gurus who have reached that stage teach the “just have fun and express yourself” approach to complete newbies. They have forgotten how much practice it took for them to make that work.

The end result is that most direct products, even when they claim they are simpler and an easier way for beginners, in fact offer techniques that are most suited to experienced guys. They will offer the most value to somewhat advanced guys, not to beginners.

To use an analogy, take the famed painter Pablo Picasso. He is most famous for his original abstract paintings as well as for the very simple sketches he made in the last decades of his life, when he was at the peak of his skills. From the outside, these look deceptively simple:

However, most people don’t realize that Picasso spent decades in his youth copying the masters and developing his skills in all styles:

There’s a great anecdote about Picasso. Some rich dude told him he would buy one of his drawings. Picasso did a quick sketch and gave it to the guy, saying “One million dollars, please.” “A million dollars?” the guy shouted…“But that only took you thirty seconds!”

“Yes,” said Picasso. “But it took me fifty years to learn how to draw that in thirty seconds.”

3. A Hybrid Approach

OK…What then is a newbie to do?

If you have followed me so far, you will understand that there is no use picking a method over another. As we have seen above, both have something to offer. But it pays to learn the ropes before you start to freestyle.

The best way is to start with indirect methods. Venusian Arts has great products, such as the Revelation ebook, which is reasonably priced and very thorough. Mehow also has great stuff, such as his DVD set of live in-field interactions,Infield Exposed, where real live approaches are broken down second by second.

We suggest you pick a couple of those and read/watch them intensely for a while, then try to apply it. These will provide you with a gigantic laundry list of signals to watch for and ways to react to them. They will jam-pack your brain with information and greatly exercise your social observation skills.

Depending on your initial level and how focused you are, this could take anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months. After a while, most of the tips will have sunk in. They will be internalized. You will notice what’s going on without having to think about it.

Then, you should move on to more “natural” products such as Real Social Dynamics' The Blueprint Decoded or Paul Janka’s Beyond the Digits.

These will teach you to relax, let go of the details and focus on the essential, which in fact is YOU. You will learn to nail down the right vibe and project your personality in a way that is naturally attractive.

Being able to do this, while retaining a strong social understanding that allows you to make sense of the smallest details, is a powerful combination.

Like in martial arts, when attracting women you need to have the foundations down, and practice your techniques for a while; then you can reach the highest levels, let go of techniques and "be like water".